Why is homosexuality more tolerated in Spain, a highly Catholic country.

Europe and the fact that the foundation of the US nation is that of Puritan settlers.

 

Well I wouldn't consider Spain a highly Catholic country. Despite its traditions I've heard that for most spaniards nowadays, religion doesn't play such a big role in their lifes anymore, specially among young people, and even those who still consider themselves Roman Catholics, often don't share the church's pow on everything, but I don't know.

It would be interesting to hear from someone actually living there.

 

What?! That's news to me. I'm shocked. That puts Almodavar's "Toldo Solbre Mi Madre" in an entirely new perspective for me...

 

My crackpot theory.

To be blunt, I always felt that there was a relationship between economic development and religiosity. In Europe, the Catholic nations developed economically at a far greater rate than their colonies, namely in Latin America and The Philippines. The economic growth in Europe probably fueled secularism and made people believe in God more abstractly (when you're relatively well-off, at least compared to the rest of the world, you probably are less inclined to be "thankful" for having another day where there is "daily bread").

In the rest of the world (hereafter, ROW), the newly converted Catholics (many by force) became the most zealous practitioners of Catholicism. The also were relatively poorer and faced economic hardships more so than European Catholics and were also subjugated to Spanish rule. Perhaps they turned to God as a crutch or as a beacon of hope for salvation in both the short term (e.g. food, daily necessities) and long term (e.g. freedom).

Also, ROW Catholics are actually distinct from European Catholics in that they also blended traditional (i.e. native) iconography and beliefs into their religious practices. In other Latin American Catholic countries, there is a pervasive culture of machismo that also goes hand in hand with "hardcore" Catholic beliefs and makes it a self-propagating relationship that fuels homophobia at a far greater rate than European Catholic countries.

In the end, I do see economic development as one of the answers to your question.

 

Strong secularism. Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's.

That is why islam is a horrible threat to Europe in general. Basically, here, people expect you to be secular by default, but islam is not a religion per se, it is a political ideology. Just look at what's happening in the countries where you have sharia laws.

 

Prior to the 20th century, Europe was incredibly religious. When I picture Europe at that time period, I imagine priests walking around and veiled nuns taking in babies at their convent. Now, they have one of the largest percentages of atheists in the West.

I believe it's because they're just so used to religions that they're just like "Ehh, religion." Most of the time, the ones that do practice religion do so in a lax manner.

Also, I remember there was a video from Spain where people meet their favorite porn stars for the first time and were allowed to touch them (even making out). The gay ones weren't shy about making out with the porn stars. That already shows how accepting being gay is over there.

Not to mention gay marriage has been legal there since 2005, almost ten years ago.

 

Okayyy then...

 

Catholicism only makes up for 67.8% of the population. The irreligious (no belief + Atheist) make up for 27.5%. [October 2014: Centro de Investigaciones Sociológicas, question 34]

According to the Gallup poll ("Is religion an important part of your daily life?"), 55% voted no.

Spain is not highly Catholic, I would say. =)

 

I agree with Quem. Numbers can be deceiving when it comes to ascertaining religious opinions.

Speaking for my own country, Catholicism is still the majority religion by a vast margin. 60% of Belgians are Catholics.

... or so the numbers would have you believe. But that's just a count of the people who were baptised.
Only about 5% of the population attends church outside of marriages and funerals, and most people couldn't find their parish priest in a lineup.

They just don't care enough about it to get themselves scrapped from the baptismal records, and many will even identify themselves as Catholics because of historical and cultural reasons. Just don't ask them to agree with the Church, even on such things as the existence of God

 

I agree with this. We're not a religious country. Traditionally we were, but nowadays, the majority of the people are not practicing catholics and don't care about religion.

 

Because Europe has several hundred years of experience of what religous interference in laws does. This brushes onto everyday life. America, doesn't.

Fun Fact (according to the internet): Spain teaches you how to masturbate in it's sex ed lessons.

 

Disclaimer: I'm not a historian. All of the below is based on some light reading and personal hypothesising.

I'm not actually familiar with Spain, but I've read a lot about France (the "first Catholic nation" of the time).
And it is, indeed, true that at times the general attitude (at least among the upper classes) was more of a "boys will be boys".
In fact, Philippe, the brother of Louis XIV, was pretty much openly gay and this apparently didn't cause much upset (except for his wife, but she had understandable reasons xD)

On the other hand, you were still expected to marry a woman and produce children. It's not as if you could take your boyfriend to dinner or live with him. It'd always remain something on the side.

Also: most of what I've read applied to the upper classes. It was kind of assumed there that since your marriage was arranged, you'd have some action on the side. Under those parameters, they didn't care too much whether it was with a man or a woman. I'm not sure if Bob the carpenter could get away with the same.



One hypothesis I once heard is that there used to be a big distinction between the protestant and Catholic visions of "sin".
For the protestants, sin was something between you and God. Every instance required penance, regret, thorough introspection.
For the Catholics it was: "It's impossible not to sin. And I can always just go to confession and say my prayers and God will forgive! See you for next week's confession, Father!"

 

A couple of (probably very implausible) theories: :lol:
1. They have siestas and brilliant working conditions meaning the population is more relaxed in life in general
2. Or perhaps the opposite, they have bigger fish to fry with worries re their economy, domestic terrorism (ETA), separatism

It really depends where in Europe you are talking about. There are parts of Europe that can be viewed in some ways as being more homophobic than in parts of the US (for e.g. in some Eastern European countries homophobia is quite extreme still; you hear of a lot of Polish immigrants to the UK coming to escape homophobia).

Interestingly France and the UK which are arguably quite secular countries (certainly a hell of a lot more secular than the US) now are less accepting than Spain re the subject if recent polls are to be believed:

The Global Divide on Homosexuality | Pew Research Center's Global Attitudes Project

 

Bingo, resu... You can't understand Spain right now without mentioning the impact of the Franco regime.

The country is still divided culturally speaking. If you think spaniards are more tolerant and in favor of LGBT rights, go and ask a spaniard baby-boomer (who grew up with Franco), and then you'll change your mind about spaniards. Both men and women. They are even more macho than americans. I've heard horror stories about gays coming out one night, and being on the streets the next day. Minors, by the way.

It's the younger generation (Xs, millenials and etc) who are more open.
Yes, you can have all the laws you want, but laws alone won't stop discrimination. It's the mindset.

Now, culturally speaking, there were (and are) quite a few openly gay artists like Federico García Lorca. His poetry was banned after Franco, even if few poets described the country as well as he did.



Almodóvar's movies are not Spain. I had a spanish girlfriend, and she was... :icon_redf , just like Penélope Cruz, but she didn't killed her husband or anything like that...

 

I'm well aware of that, but Europe in general beats America in general, I assure you. Come visit the rural South or rural Midwest if you think I'm wrong.

 

I've heard a lot of reports of really horrible homophobia in Poland, and have even got into arguments, with, of all people, furries from Poland who are anti-gay. I don't have a very positive image of the place as gay friendly, and I'd bet the small towns are just as backwards as the ones in the US, maybe worse.

I think in general Europe is more sexually open, but not everywhere, especially the east, and rural enclaves of older folks.