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Issuing an apology for my anti-feminist comments.

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by MouseKeeper, Feb 17, 2015.

  1. MouseKeeper

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    About a while back, I made a comment concerning feminism on a thread about stopping mysoginy, which eventually turned into a heated debate/argument about feminism (well, it felt heated) and I'd like to issue an apology.

    I'd first like to point out when I said

    The first part was sarcastic. What caused me to say that was that some of the feminists I've seen on the internet (especially youtube) stereotyped me as misogynist because of my views about feminism, they assumed that because I have my views about feminism that I must be a woman hater and that I'm against equal rights for women, basically strawmanning my views and restricting me to a false dichotomy and assuming that that's what I think. Second part, I will admit, saying I hate, is a little too harsh so I apologize for that. The proceedng statement:

    was simply exprssing why I felt the way I did, and what I felt was a better alternative, and so on and so forth. The last part of that statement

    was simply meant as showing that sure some games may depict a woman in a situation such as being kidnapped and a male coming to the rescue, the whole "damsel in distress" as sarkeesian calls it, but it still never resulted in me viewing women as weaker or inferior, and it never resulted in me thinking any less of women, etc. basically the exact opposite of what she allegedly claims is going on in a guys head when we play these games, that she's equating us with true misogyny, and overall that I feel attacking video games over a particular element in a story is really childish and unnecessary. But then again, I'm asuming based on my thoughts while playing these games, maybe there are men out there who think less of women and that Anita is right afterall, but whatever the case, that's just not the case with me. I completely lack these thoughts that these games allegedly cause to go through our heads.

    I do however understand that these comments and the other comments I've left after someone began to debate me were highly offensive and for that I apologize. I'm sorry that I've said these things, and while I still have my views, I am sorry for causing an uproar where one wasn't needed.

    I would like to end with although I have my views on feminism, I do NOT hate women, never have, and I am NOT against womens rights, never have been. Part of the reason I left religion is because of the patriarchy that is advocated in the bible, and the violence against women in the old testiment. Although I am skeptical that there's a patriarchy in America today, I would definitely support the feminists in their battle against one if I saw evidence of one.

    Thank you for taking the time to read this. I'm not looking to continue the debate, I'm not posting this to start another debate, frankly this is all behind me, but I felt that an apology from myself would be appreciated to those I've hurt.
     
    #1 MouseKeeper, Feb 17, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2015
  2. Fallingdown7

    Fallingdown7 Guest

    I think this is why It's so important to avoid generalizations. Just like some people hate being called misogynists for not identifying as feminists, we feminists also hate being generalized as crazy, man-haters, etc.

    I know when I speak of the patriarchy, I am speaking against the homophobia I face as a lesbian which is 100% based on misogyny and patriarchy. Every single lesbian will face sexual harassment and coercion from a straight male at one point in their lives, and many risk being correctively raped and verbally attacked if they do not learn to give men a chance a dating. This happens even in the USA as our society still worships penises and believes a penis needs to take place in order for real sex or relationships to happen.

    This isn't to start a debate but to help people understand why we lean toward feminism. Men suffer too, and we know that, but we can't erase people's voices, especially queer women's voices, as we still need a movement that helps us. The LGBT movement is fine, but our homophobia is uniquely based on misogyny only, so we tend to feel alone in the LGBT community as no one bothers to tackle the issues that queer women face (we get just as much hate here actually).

    I just hope this can be a learning experience for both sides.
     
    #2 Fallingdown7, Feb 17, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2015
  3. Pine

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    As a man I am 100% a feminist and will be until there is equality globally.
     
  4. clockworkfox

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    This. There are radical feminists out there that take extreme viewpoints, but that isn't the standard model of feminism. Feminism, at its core, is about equality, and I am of the opinion that the stereotype "man-hating feminist" is actually opposed to the spirit of feminism, and a poor representation of the movement.

    See, that's part of the problem with the stereotypes of feminism. Feminism helps men too. A core part of the issues feminism seeks to address is the generalization and association with women as the weaker sex, and as a result, femininity in males as a weak trait. As women delve into more fields and activities and are empowered, patriarchal views decide that these activities, career paths, etc. aren't "masculine enough" for men, which causes major problems for any guy that's, well, a fucking human being with a full range of emotions and interests suitable for a human being.

    Humanism to me just seems like another way to talk about feminism, without calling it feminism. I do hate the rep feminism has gotten over the years thanks to some crazy extremists that misrepresent its real goals, but I still prefer the term feminist to humanist for personal reasons. While I agree with you to an extent about the way some extremist members of the movement choose to act, I don't see it as a reason to hate feminism, or feminists on the whole, since those extremists that don't empathise with men are a small minority of the movement, and shouldn't be used to represent the whole.

    As a cismale, I don't expect the patriarchy to be evident to you - blindness is the price to pay for privilege. And in case there's any doubt, because this is the internet and it skews perceptions, I am being 100% honest, without even a small trace of condescension. But myself, being transgender, I've experienced being perceived as both sexes, and I can say there's definitely a reason to fight for women's rights. On top of that, I can see the flaws in the patriarchy that have led to the dehumanization of men and boys on a different, emotional level, and I feel like that's something that traditional feminism addresses.

    Anyway, I'm not looking to spark a debate, or an argument, or even further conversation on the topic. I don't expect you to embrace feminism. And I do appreciate that you took the time to clarify your prior statements, and create an appology. I really just wanted to point out that there are people that identify as feminists that are focused on issues that pertain to both women and men, and that the sort of extremists that do truly hate men are far from the majority.
     
  5. happydavid

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    I'm going to suggest that you put this down to experience and not worry about it. Now it's time to move on. Everyone makes mistakes
     
  6. photoguy93

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    I think it's very mature to apologize when you were wrong, but I'm not exactly sure you needed to spend all this time doing it.

    Look, EC is not as warm and cuddly as it used to be. If you have an opinion, share it. I fully agree with the idea that we don't want a female supremacist world - we need an equal world.

    Many times, I've wanted to say things but knew it could start a war on here. That's not fun, but dangit, what are opinions if we can't discuss them?
     
  7. MouseKeeper

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    I think I should have said "offer," not "issue." Offer sounds a lot better.
     
  8. Pret Allez

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    Thank you for offering this. (*hug*) I think it's quite positive that you recognize sexism exists and that your only question is to what degree.

    To preserve the topic, I have posted my questions to you directly.