It's Time

[xballetxbeautyx]

NathanHaleFan said it perfectly in the Prop 8 thread:

I think we need to take the campaign for marriage equality to the next level. WHY are so many gays standing by silently while their rights continue to be denied? We need protests on a level comparable to those for civil rights in Birmingham, Alabama in the 60's. Within a month of the end of the Birmingham riots, all segregation was gone from that city.

The answer is not bargaining or pleading anymore, guys! It's civil disobedience!

I agree. So I think we need to start doing something about this- organizing stuff. Anybody in LGBT groups who wants to help start this up? We have a thread discussing the outcome of Prop 8, now we need one planning what we're going to do about it. We need to let them know we want rights and that we're here and ready to fight! ~megan~

[Martin]

http://www.emptyclosets.com/forum/sh...5&postcount=79

Becky sums up the best things to do there. It's not surprising that everybody wants to try and make big changes to remove the ban, but we're all just annoyed and aiming for our desired result without actually thinking it through. The best thing we can do is what Becky said, and start off with small changes and build our way up. She started off small and now plays a massive role in PFLAG, and I am sure she would agree that the approach she took was the best for both herself and the campaign for equality. It would be more damaging if we all tried to jump into a campaign and make a massive impact instead of building our way up like everybody else. Rather than plan big things, do the obvious little things and work your way up. That's how you make a change in the world.

[Pepsi]

I'm sorry Martin but I totally and completely disagree with you. I'm sick and tired of my rights being dragged across the floor and I'm not gonna sit by and watch as "little changes" slowly change the law. I don't want to wait to be able to marry the person I love, or take care of a child or whatever the hell they wanna spit on next. Its segregation and its wrong. We should all go riot on Capitol Hill if you ask me but that's just my opinion so yea.

[kh23172]

Originally Posted by Pepsi

I'm sorry Martin but I totally and completely disagree with you. I'm sick and tired of my rights being dragged across the floor and I'm not gonna sit by and watch as "little changes" slowly change the law. I don't want to wait to be able to marry the person I love, or take care of a child or whatever the hell they wanna spit on next. Its segregation and its wrong. We should all go riot on Capitol Hill if you ask me but that's just my opinion so yea.

Throughout history it has taken atleast 150 years for any minority to reach their fullest potential. From the Seneca Falls convention in the early 19th century to the 1920-1950s, women fought for their rights and finally achieved them. From the beginning of the America colonies has slavery been prevalent, until the 1860s with the abolition of slavery. But, it took then a century for african americans to receive their freedoms. And now, in the year 2008, an african american is president. Talk about slow changes that ended up changing the world. History always repeats itself, and it will always do that. My point here is that now that homosexuality is being so widely recognized as the next major minority, nothing will happen overnight. In fact, things won't happen in 20 to 30 years either. I truly believe that gays won't finally receive any full rights for another 100+ years. Just think, in the 1950s African Americans were still banned from "white" bathrooms and water fountains - after being abolished from slavery for almost 100 years. It is ignorant to think that things for homosexuals will change anytime soon. Starting off small is the only way to achieve it, and that's exactly what we ARE doing now. Don't be that upset, prop 8 and amendement 2 only passed by 2 and 3 percent, respectively. Our actions are not entirely in vain.

[Pepsi]

^^ Just because it will probably take a long time doesn't mean we should let it take a long time. We should at least try and get our rights ratified now even if its unlikely that it'll happen. Now come on lets start a group, we can call ourselves "The Rainbow Panthers" (K that last sentence was clearly a joke but still)

[Martin]

Originally Posted by Pepsi

I'm sorry Martin but I totally and completely disagree with you. I'm sick and tired of my rights being dragged across the floor and I'm not gonna sit by and watch as "little changes" slowly change the law. I don't want to wait to be able to marry the person I love, or take care of a child or whatever the hell they wanna spit on next. Its segregation and its wrong. We should all go riot on Capitol Hill if you ask me but that's just my opinion so yea.

Rioting will not get us what we want. All it does is make it difficult for the campaigners to fight for us and get what we rightfully deserve. Religion is a very strong obstacle to tackle and no amount of violence will destroy it or weaken it. It acts as a comfort barrier for those who feel they need to have a belief in something that brings happiness and peace both in the world and when we die. It also has an idealogy on social order, something we know that LGBT play no role in. If we go around causing havoc then we are not only strengthening the church and giving them more reasons to be against us, but we will be putting fear into those who may have supported us and they will run right to the churches for comfort. Those churches will claim how "God saw it coming" and because of that we will lose our support.

It's understandable that people are extremely upset about the loss at the elections, but from a sociologists point of view I am looking at the significant change in social attitudes rather than the defeat it has caused. Proposition 22 in 2000 passed with 62%. 8 years later and we have gained an additional 10% in one the biggest states in America causing only 52% to vote yes this time round. That is a significant change in such a short amount of time, and if we carry on doing what we do now then nothing will change this trend we have. Religious propoganda is becoming more weak, and based on the results of prop 8 it is now at the point in California where it is only just controlling the majority of people. In another 8 years time there is no reason we can't be the majority. For now we just have to wait and see what the future brings rather than go out and cause trouble, that will just turn people against us and lose support. We can't give people excuses to dislike us or we will lose everything we have worked so hard for, and considering there is still so much more to fight for we can't afford taking any more steps backwards like we have had to on November 4th.

Originally Posted by Martin

Rioting will not get us what we want. All it does is make it difficult for the campaigners to fight for us and get what we rightfully deserve... We can't give people excuses to dislike us or we will lose everything we have worked so hard for, and considering there is still so much more to fight for we can't afford taking any more steps backwards like we have had to on November 4th.

Agreed. We have to wage more of a silent, steady, peaceful battle if we want to assure victory.

We're walking on eggshells here-- one misstep could cause our entire platform to shatter.

[xballetxbeautyx]

I'm kind of a mix between Martin and Pepsi- I want big steps, but not necesarily riots- just making ourselves heard to the general public- making sure they know we're here and we're not just going to sit back and watch our rights given to us and then snatched back away.

[Ruthel]

On big steps and small steps:

An essay on proposition 8 has been brewing in my head all evening, something perhaps to write down and send in to my university newspaper's opinion columns. For me, to submit the essay so publicly to the entire school, to step into the limelight and the hot seat, would be a big step on my part, even if writing such columns was nothing for someone else who's done far more.

But, on my part, if I go through with submitting it, then maybe just a little more of our voice would be heard.

If each of us takes a step, not necessarily a big step on the scale of the great things others may have done, but a step that is large and meaningful to us, then surely, change will happen...? I hope so.

(Now that I've admitted to simmering up an essay I guess there's more incentive to actually write it out completely and deliver )

[Kid Quasar]

The petition is good, but only those who are 18 or older can sign it, and it's for California only. I am a minor in a different state, I really wish there was something I could do to help.

I think we will need a new name for this type of relationship. The straight "religious community", have so distorted the definition to the point of legal recognition of two becoming one. At this point we need another word maybe "unity", as an example which has a specific meaning for us. This would allow us to petition the Government for the same legal protections, without taking anything away from another group.

[Wander]

Originally Posted by Ruthel

On big steps and small steps:

An essay on proposition 8 has been brewing in my head all evening, something perhaps to write down and send in to my university newspaper's opinion columns. For me, to submit the essay so publicly to the entire school, to step into the limelight and the hot seat, would be a big step on my part, even if writing such columns was nothing for someone else who's done far more.

But, on my part, if I go through with submitting it, then maybe just a little more of our voice would be heard.

If each of us takes a step, not necessarily a big step on the scale of the great things others may have done, but a step that is large and meaningful to us, then surely, change will happen...? I hope so.

(Now that I've admitted to simmering up an essay I guess there's more incentive to actually write it out completely and deliver )

Please do. We need as much positive exposure and support we can get, and I'm sure the members here would love to read the essay if it gets published and you're willing to post it.

[Amy]

I think my FB status says it all.

"This is the time for change. It is our era, it is our moment."

I'm going to fight. I will be on the front lines if I can. I will do everything I can, I will make sure this is won.