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Gays Only Club

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Micah, May 28, 2007.

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  1. Micah

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    Source: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21804219-2862,00.html

    Thoughts? I'm still undecided. I've never been discriminated against while at the club - but I'm sure the claims are true none the less.
     
  2. I'm not sure at this point either, and I agree that the claims are most likely true. It's kind of similar to a situation my friend described to me. He has a friend who's black and another one who's really white. The black guy makes fun of the white guy because he has really light skin and no one makes a big deal. But if it were switched its considered racism. So one the one hand I want to say yes it's ok because they are a minority, and the heterosexuals have the fluidity to go many other places because they are the majority while the homosexuals cant. But on the other I think well is it really fair because if the victimizers and victimized were switched in this situation the ban would be considered unacceptable. So I'm trying to be considerate of both sides of the arguement before I decide whether or not it's ok.
     
  3. nick79

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    Wow, I had no idea that went on... But the cynic in me thinks that the hen's groups will just move on to another gay bar...
     
  4. BILL9854

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    But how would you prove you're gay? Imagine being refused entry because the bouncers thought you were straight, lol :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
    Although I suppose no straight guys would ever pretend to be gay just to get in so my point goes out the window.
     
  5. Jim1454

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    It sounds to me like it was necessary... why else would someone go to the trouble and expense of getting that kind of ruling. I think its unfortunate that going to a gay bar was becoming a form of entertainment for straight men and women - how pathetic that they didn't have anything better to do than to make fun of those different than themselves...

    So I'm all for the ruling. I think it makes a lot of sense. I would just hope that the attention that is has drawn doesn't make patrons a target of abuse when they are entering or leaving the pub.
     
  6. aprilblue426

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    *AHEM...* not to seem rude or anything, but where would the lesbians go? are we allowed to go to the places straight ppl go to? do they have their own lesbian bar? i would've thought that gays and lesbians would be sticking together, but...i guess not. nevermind, just ignore me. i prolly have no idea what im talking about anyway.
     
  7. Phantomblade

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    i dont like it its to much like segregation. soon we will be made to drink form diffrent waterfountains. (ok mabey thats alittle dramatic but you see my point)
     
  8. Miaplacidus

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    I read about this on "the other site" (you know which one). I don't think it's something that should be done. Personally I don't know any straight guys/girls who would be willing to go to a gay club, so it's useless. But the forceful exclusion of straight people... that's too much in my opinion.
     
  9. nisomer

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    a lot of straight people actually go to gay clubs...apparently they think its more fun or something...dunno why.

    i personally think that the ban is discriminatory, against straight people.
     
  10. Micah

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    A few things about the club:

    They already have "men only nights" - where obviously only men are allowed in.

    Lesbians go to this club, but there are also specific lesbian bars/clubs in the city

    Very true. Lots of straight girls like to go to support their males friends. Also: My brother likes to go to gay clubs since they are just down the road from him, and they let men in after 3am. Lots of straight clubs want to maintain a balance between guys and girls, so guys can sometimes wait 30-60 minutes to get in. Whereas gay clubs, guys always get in straight away.

    Also: Straight girls like to go because they don't have to worry about being hit on by guys..
     
  11. Miaplacidus

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    I can tell you, no straight guy would go to a gay club in Uruguay. It's taboo. That is like wearing a pink t-shirt with the text "I AM GAY" in big letters (or so they think). They're afraid it might turn them gay or something like that.
     
  12. Kimi

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    That is very true:thumbsup:

    It's sad that we have to isolate from straight people but after hearing about what happened in Moscow. I have to say it's good:http://emptyclosets.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1776

    In other view, the club owner can do whatever they want...I mean it's theirs:dry:
     
  13. joeyconnick

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    It's a really, really tricky topic. It's the same sort of issues that crop up around women's-only spaces... on the surface, women's-only spaces are totally discriminatory and seem to run completely counter to the notion of EQUALITY of the sexes, right? But for those of us who have been to gay clubs and gay-only or predominantly-gay spaces, we can all probably go on at length how cool it is to be able to be ourselves and know we're not going to get singled out or (shudder) attacked. Don't EVER underestimate the rush of knowing you can actually go up to person of the same gender and hit on them and know that the only negative thing that might happen is they'll not be into you.

    (This also touches on the other thread about gay-only schools, actually.)

    X-only spaces (where X is any discriminated-against group) is an imperfect concept that reflects our highly imperfect world. Of course in an ideal society, we wouldn't need women's-only or gay-only spaces because women and gay people would feel as safe and be treated the same as men or straight people. But we don't live in that kind of society... we live in one where there are a lot of ingrained inequalities and huge safety issues. Modern gay culture, especially in Canada and the US, sprung up around illegal-at-the-time gay-only venues where people felt free enough to be themselves, even if they were likely at any time to be raided and their patrons imprisoned and perhaps publicly ruined.

    This particular ruling sounds pretty extreme but here in Vancouver, one of our major gay bars has a men's-only entrance at the back. I find that pretty discriminatory but the bar staff insist that if they didn't have that kind of thing, the club would be overrun by straight people. I would like to think there are other ways of ensuring your clientele is gay or gay-friendly but I can admit the possibility that there might not be. Another major gay club here has a really popular night that has become so well-known in the city that when you now go past the line-up (or manage to get in) you can totally tell the clientele is not at all predominantly gay. I've been past the line-up and wondered if I was really looking at the line-up for a gay bar.

    I guess personally I'm far more comfortable restricting a non-persecuted/non-systemically discriminated against group than I am other minority groups. So I personally am fine barring or restricting straight people from certain select places because straight people have a bazillion clubs they can go to whereas we have a handful (maybe 3 or 4 where I live). I think straight people in Vancouver can survive.

    I'm not so comfortable with gay establishments restricting women like they do with a men's-only entrance. I think the disempowered in society should stick together. So even though I sometimes feel my sense of entitlement has been bruised because I'm not allowed in certain women's-only spaces, I step back and reconsider. Because if I love and appreciate gay-only spaces, how can I not see how women or non-white people would feel the same?

    And it's not the same thing as segregation in the US because segregation was something imposed by the powerful to keep the "lesser" people in their place. The idea behind X-only spaces is to give minority groups a bit of a breather from the overwhelming dominance of the mainstream. And a chance to garner strength from each other. And (hopefully) plot the downfall of oppression everywhere.

    I mean if we didn't have gay-only spaces, where would we dream up the gay agenda? :lol:
     
  14. Negasta

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    A privately owned business has the right to refuse entry or employment to any person or group they wish, that is why it is called a private business.

    A government institution on the other hand must be fully inclusive.
     
  15. Jim1454

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    I'm not sure that's entirely true.... I suppose it might differ by country.
     
  16. joeyconnick

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    That would be super entirely wrong, because otherwise they wouldn't have needed to go to court, would they?

    Here in Canada no business can discriminate in contravention to the Charter, or the appropriate province's human rights code. That's the case in most Western democracies.
     
  17. Negasta

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    I meant in that would be in the case in a truly free country, where PCF (Politically Correct Fascism) has not taken over.
     
  18. joeyconnick

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    Yes, it's just so fascist to guarantee people freedom from discrimination.

    And it would be just SO much better if individuals and corporations were able to do whatever they wanted to anyone without any fear of government regulation or censure... what an awesome free market world that would be. Profit uber alles, especially if it means people are free to discriminate. Survival of the richest... how lovely.
     
  19. Negasta

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    Private schools can allow in only the kids they want to, why should a privately owned club not be allowed to allow in only those people they want to?

    I said nothing about the free market, because any person with an ounce of sense can see that a totally free market would be disastrous (think America before the anti-trust laws), it has however been proven through experience that an economy that is as loosely regulated as possible is the strongest kind, socialism has never done any country it was introduced in any favours. I am however a libertarian which means I believe that a person has the right to private property and the right to do with that property whatever they want and exclude anybody they want from entering that property.
     
  20. Jim1454

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    Are there many private schools that openly discriminate based on race or sexual orientation? I wouldn't think so - that too would be illegal as far as I'm aware - at least here in Canada.

    Now, I say 'openly' because while I've never had anything to do with private schools, I'm assuming they can typically influence the kind of person that attends based on their ability to pay or their academic credentials. This will often exclude certain groups based on socio-economic conditions.
     
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