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Has lesbian erasure gotten worse?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by sporn, May 17, 2015.

  1. sporn

    sporn Guest

    What I mean by lesbian erasure is people denying lesbians exist or telling lesbians that they shouldn't label or limit themselves. I've also noticed that most "lesbians" in pop culture today seem to end up with men. I didn't notice that stuff happening in 90s movies. I hope this is just my imagination. I've been struggling with my sexuality a lot and all of this lesbian erasure is making me feel like shit.
     
  2. Bi in MD

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    dont worry about what someone else is doing. Worry about how you feel and what you are doing.
    If being with only women is what makes you feel right and good, then that is what you need to do.
    Im bi, I need the companionship of both at times (not at the same time) Its who I am and I struggled with it for many years before I gave in to the fact that I was interested in men too.
    If you are interested in men as well as women, then its ok to play both sides of the field. Sexuality is a personal and individual thing, you are really the only one that knows what is right for you. Just because others are doing something, it is not an indication that it is also right for you.
     
  3. Fallingdown7

    Fallingdown7 Guest

    Actually, yes. Yes it has. Everyone and their mother likes to tell us that "sexuality is fluid" but yet they don't tell straight men they need to open up to men; gay men are rarely told this either. Lesbians these days are becoming more and more closeted as both the GBT communities as well as the straight communities despise us and want us to suck cock.

    I honestly find gay and bi people more anti-lesbian than any redneck straight homophobe these days.
     
  4. sporn

    sporn Guest

    It seems like conservative people are becoming more accepting of lesbians and liberals are becoming less accepting. I'm getting sick of people encouraging me to try out men, not label myself or be open minded.

    I looked at the study that most people are probably talking about when they say sexuality is fluid. It had a very low and skewed sample. Even in that study most women didn't change their label. The majority of women that changed their label were bi/unlabeled. That study even counted changing their label from bi to unlabelled as a change in label.

    I wish people would stop citing that flawed study.

    From now on I think I'll just tell people I'm not interested in sex/asexual/not attracted to people. I know asexuals have more problems with erasure. Lesbian erasure feels more like a personal attack than asexual erasure does. If people don't believe me when I say I'm asexual or not interested in sex I assume they're not educated in asexuality or don't believe it exists in general. If they say they don't believe I'm gay it feels like they're criticizing my character.

    I often don't believe I'm truly gay. I go between clearly not wanting to be with men to interacting with a cool guy and thinking that I could give him a try. This makes me go crazy.
     
  5. Bi in MD

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    whoa there little filly
    lets back that boat up just a bit.
    I am Bi, no question, willing to prove it any time.
    My best friends are two lesbian girls, I do not want them to suck a cock, not mine or anyone else's, I don't despise them, I love them like you wouldn't believe, I want them to be happy and would do anything in my power to see that they are. One of them wants a motorcycle, as soon as I can afford to buy it for her, Im going to, not for what I can get in return, but just to see her happy. The most intimate I have ever been with either of them is a friendly hug from one of them now and again.
    They are two of the most beautiful, most loving and caring people I have ever had the privilege of knowing.
    Im sure there are some guys out there, straight, bi, gay, confused, etc... that would like to see you do things that are not natural to who you are, but you can be certain that I am not one of them, and I seriously dont know that any of my friends would think that way either.
    God bless you for who you are.
     
  6. Fallingdown7

    Fallingdown7 Guest

    Yeah, I apologize if you felt attacked, but of course I know not all bi people are lesbophobes :'3

    What I really meant is that in my personal experience, more bi people have hated me than straight people. I don't know if this is lashing out against community biphobia, but the division is quite sad.
     
  7. ChloeKiss

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    I would never suck a cock. God people are dumbasses :lol:

    I like pussy too much :wink: Chicks are so cute to me :icon_wink It would be way too hard for me to give them up just because certain fucking wankers believe lesbians should ''open up'' why the fuck would we care about penises when we're lesbians? People need to get over themselves. Oh and not every cute girl will like men.. :lol: Clearly I mean go raid tumblr there are plenty of cute fem lesbians who literally couldn't care less about fucking guys.. :lol:

    In general Lesbians should be taken way more seriously then they/we are. I am rather annoyed by those flamboyant gay men that whine about women and then go on to say how can women be lesbians.. :lol: This is how I go about being treated like shit by GBT and Straight communities regarding my sexual orientation. I come up with even nastier asshole remarks and gobsmack every stupid fuck that walks the earth.

    In saying that.. Not all people are against lesbians.. Just like not all Lesbians are against other people. If that makes sense.
     
  8. Austin

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    I have never seen gay people tell lesbians to (even figuratively) "suck a cock"....

    I'm gay so maybe I just don't really notice it but I don't really see lesbian erasure happening. If anything, I'd blame straight or questioning female celebrities.
     
  9. Fallingdown7

    Fallingdown7 Guest

    Oh, I forgot to bring up the women are sexually fluid studies. They are problematic for three reasons:

    1) Many cite physical sexual arousal or porn usage, failing to realize that male and female bodies react differently. Men are more likely to be aroused by things they find sexually attractive, while women are aroused by everything sexual, including rape and child porn- but it doesn't mean women are "fluid pedophiles". It just means It's how the vagina functions. Furthermore, men are more visual and women are more mental with attraction. Women are more likely to enjoy porn of genders they don't like as long as the scenery is good, again this is not fluid sexuality if there is no sexual/romantic interest in real life.

    2) Women have more social pressure to be fluid rather than an innate interest in it. We live in a society where women are still considered 'property' for men and we aren't allowed to be unavailable to them. Basically everything women do sexually is supposed to be for a man's benefit. This means that lesbians may get with men out of fear of their own safety, and straight women USUALLY get with women to "turn men on"- not out of pure interest.

    3) Likewise, men have more social pressure to stay rigid. If a straight man were to experiment, he'd be considered gay forever even if he sleeps with 100,000 women later and many guys just don't want the stigma. Men are more quiet about being fluid, but in reality It's just as common. Almost every straight guy I know has been with a man sexually, including my straight macho father who kissed one. They just don't want to admit it.

    So yeah, social constructions.
     
  10. sporn

    sporn Guest

    I think you don't see it because you're male. I didn't really see it until I tried to come out. I agree with you on the straight and questioning celebrities. Since there isn't that many out lesbian celebrities people just put my into the straight and questioning category whoever I say I'm not straight.
     
  11. Bi in MD

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    All I can say is that if any of you ever meet me, gay or lesbian, you will just be one of the crowd to me, we can be good friends, do things together maybe even grow to love one another in a non sexual way. But never would I consider thinking that Im going to change you over to wanting to have sex with me, and never would I consider trying.
    If I get to like you, and even more I end up loving you for who you are, why the hell would I want to risk changing you?
    And Im pretty sure there are plenty of other bi males out there that think of lesbians the same way I do. Just like my straight male friends, Im not about to ask them to suck my dick either. I really dont see the difference other than you are prettier than they are.
     
  12. Maddy

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    Yeah, I definitely get what you mean. I hear so much "but you haven't even given guys a try, how do you know?" and "don't you think you're being close-minded?" and all that bullshit by people who can't fathom the idea that women can have no interest in men. Generalisation, but within the queer community, the men I see tend to be gay and the women I see tend to be bi or pan.

    Also, not loving the casual cissexism. I'm dating a trans girl. I have in fact sucked a cock. It doesn't mean I'm sleeping with a man, it means I'm with a woman who happens to have an outie. Genitals =/= gender.
     
  13. Austin

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    I suppose. It's quite baffling that people don't believe women can be lesbians. Not that the topic comes up often, but I have never once heard a person deny the existence of lesbians or believe they are just confused. I also do not hear anything about men considering women to be property (other than the "make me a sandwich" "joke"). In fact, my mom tends to have the heaviest weight on big decisions that my parents make. She pretty much has "veto" power! Possibly because I wouldn't surround myself with those people that I don't hear it and don't even leave the house much to hear the opinions of more closed-minded people.... plus relationships around me seem to be equal or weighed in favor of the women, but still... it baffles me because this has never been my experience. It sounds like something out of the 50's!
     
  14. kageshiro

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    Not really. Theoretically the more LGBT awareness/acceptance happens the less anyone should care about who's lesbian, who's gay, and etc. It's not the same as erasure but I wouldn't be surprised if some people get them confused.

    Of all the obscure sexualities out there Lesbians are one of the most recognized, and tolerated albeit sometimes for the wrong reasons. All the homophobics out there who can't get enough of their girl on girl porn :rolleyes:
     
  15. Maddy

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    Being fetishised isn't the same thing as being accepted. Straight guys will drool over you if you happen to be a femme cis woman who's mainstream attractive and willing to perform with other femme cis attractive women for their benefit. That doesn't mean your average lesbian on the street doesn't face homophobia tied in with sexism, especially those of us who aren't attractive or interested in turning guys on.
     
  16. Schloss

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    Well said. Exactly what I perceive to be true.
     
  17. Chip

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    No offense, but I get really annoyed by the overly dramatic and emotional use of "erasure." It's a bullshit term that serves no purpose except to draw attention. Nobody is erasing anything.

    Certainly some people aren't being respectful, while other people are trying to create membership shame by trying to exclude others (saying "you're not goldstar" or "you're not lesbian enough" or "you're not butch enough" or whatever) so that they can feel like they belong.

    But it's not erasure.
     
  18. Jellal

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    I agree that there's something about the word erasure that annoys me. Take the term "trans erasure." I've seen lots of people complain about how specific shows or stories are guilty of "trans erasure" for not having trans characters. I say, there's a certain amount of wanting to be included in everything that's a little TOO goddamn needy.

    But OP, to answer your question about whether being told that "being a lesbian isn't a thing" is happening with more frequency than before, I think that is absolutely correct. And here's a possible reason why: more women are gaining the opportunity to come out than before in this day and age, so you get a wider backlash from more people who try to write it off as a "phase" or an "experiment," basically anything that can be used to undermine the validity of someone's lesbian feelings. These cases are more common because I think now in this point in history, more than before, there is a society more accepting of lesbians at large. The majority of those who aren't accepting would rather "explain it away" instead of resulting to physical violence. That could be feeding into the trend of anti-lesbian sentiment.
     
  19. Fallingdown7

    Fallingdown7 Guest

    Actually no, that's not being recognized or tolerated at all. Guys may like lesbian porn but it doesn't mean they 'recognize' actual lesbian sexuality- quite the opposite. In their minds, lesbians don't actually exist, we're all bisexual and we all "love" being fucked by men, mainly by them. Men literally become enraged if a lesbian will not willingly sleep with a man and use every excuse in the book to convert her and convince her that all women love sex with men. How is that recognizing lesbian sexuality? It's recognizing bisexual women (though for the wrong reasons), not lesbians. Lesbian means women -only-.

    Gay men are actually the most recognized sexuality in the LGBT community- they're just not the most accepted, which is a major difference. They may be openly hated for being gay, but their sexuality exists for most people. A gay guy can sleep with a woman and still be seen as gay. A lesbian cannot sleep with a man and still be a lesbian, AND lesbians are more likely to be shamed and invalidated for being in straight marriages than gay guys are because our society is penis-centric. I'm not saying It's a walk in the park to be a gay guy, but their sexuality is more valid is all.

    And lesbians get erased by people in the LGBT community EVERY. DAY. You won't believe how many gay men and bi people tell me that I secretly like men, that I can have "exceptions", that I should "open my mind", that I will "Fall in love with a man one day!" I've never heard of lesbians or bi people tell gay men that they need to stop being close-minded and start dating women.
     
    #19 Fallingdown7, May 18, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2015
  20. Anongirl123

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    I hate to say it, but this really sounds like misandry. Most men aren't evil lesbian haters. Although a lot of guys may like lesbian porn, it's not like they want to enslave lesbians. yes, they can be rude - so can old women, and teenagers, and bisexual people, and other lesbians, and everyone else under the sun. Most of the men I've met in my life don't have this creepy, tyrannical attitude. And backpedaling and saying "yes, not all men do this, obviously" is an awful excuse, because it implies that the ones who don't are the minority and the exception. I think the men who would actually become "enraged" if a lesbian won't sleep with him are the minority, if anything.

    I agree with Chip. I hate the term "erasure" and how it's thrown around so casually. Yes there are rude comments and a lot of ignorance, but the best way to solve this is to live authentically and educate people. Be happy and confident, live by example, and that's really all you can do. Taking things to the extreme just fuels the "angry lesbian" stereotype. Frankly, it's easy to see where that comes from reading some of the posts on this forum. I get that people are hurt and no one is intentionally being offensive, but there's a line to be crossed.