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Why do people disagree with marriage equality?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by mangotree, May 18, 2015.

  1. mangotree

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    Here in Australia, there is still no marriage equality. I find it really strange - especially since the country isn't terribly religious.

    I hear some seemingly non-religious people on TV say - "I don't agree with gay marriage" or deflect their personal opinions by saying "some people don't agree with gay marriage, and that's okay". But they don't say why.

    If there's no religious reason (e.g. believing only in "biblical marriage"), then what's the problem? What is there to disagree with?
    Why do the personal lives of people that they don't know cause them so much discomfort?
    If God's wrath isn't in the equation, what do they think is going to happen if marriage equality becomes legal?

    It baffles me.
     
  2. Fallingdown7

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    Because gays can't have biological children? But then you'd have to argue that sterile and elderly couples can't get married....

    ....Yeah, I don't get it either.
     
  3. XenaxGabby

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    Because they think if gay people get married, it will make their marriage less valid thus destroying civilization and bringing forth the zombie apocalypse.
     
  4. biAnnika

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    Yer problem is yer lookin' fer rational s'lutions, but t'ain't nothin' rational about it.

    To many, homosexuality == ick; marriage != ick;
    therefore homosexuality == marriage leads to contradiction.
     
  5. Andrew99

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    Stupidity.
     
  6. Browncoat

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    Thousands of years of institutionalized stigma can be hard to overturn.
     
  7. pinkpanther

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    A lot of straight people see marriage as something that they're inherently entitled to. If you change the law in order to allow for non heterosexuals to marry, you are automatically making their union less important. Suddenly, marriage stops being a legal institution between two spouses and turns into a pathetic joke.

    Kinda sad if you ask me...
     
  8. Bi in MD

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    I think in the U.S at least it has a lot to do with claiming that rights are being violated.
    Marriage in itself is not a right, its a privilege granted by the individual states, so claiming that rights are being violated is a red flag to many people.
    In the first place, if a privilege is treated as a right, then there really can be no reason not to give a drivers license, or even make someone test for it, reach a certain age and off you go. a privilege can be regulated, a right not as easily.
    The red flag part comes from a great dislike for what civil rights turned into, not that fact that blacks are treated equal, but now all minorities are included, hispanic, black, indian and then we add levels, a handicap black, has more advantage than a non handicap black, but a handicap black currently on welfare beats the handicap black that currently is working. ( I work for the government, I see this every day, this is NOT made up) just imagine if it becomes a handicap lesbian black on welfare,,holy crap, this is someone that could get a job as a brain surgeon without going any farther than the 5th grade.
    It is honestly of control.
    So its not actually the gays themselves that are feared, its how they will be added to these programs that is feared.
    just look at the most foolish of all laws there is, Hate crime laws. I dont care whos ass you beat in the street, you are not doing it out of love, its a hate crime, every time and all should be treated equally, nobody needs more protection than the other.
    the resistance comes from a fear of what has already come to pass.

    This is not only my opinion but an opinion that I have heard in various ways from others before.
     
  9. BryanM

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    It's people wanting to hold onto any privelege they have over others. We saw it with interracial marriage restrictions as well.
     
  10. XenaxGabby

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    Good point!
     
  11. awesomeyodais

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    Here's another privilege theory that doesn't make much sense other than it just does - for some closeted men and women (mostly men) in deep denial/or covering up for political/business/societal reasons, marriage is proof irrefutable that they're str8. Unless/until they get caught but that's another story. If that ceremony suddenly becomes available to everyone, well, it's not much of a proof anymore. Silly theory but it's almost 2am lol.
     
  12. PatrickUK

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    It's an extension of their prejudice against the LGBT community.

    Most of the homophobes I know are not particularly religious people, but they still hold the same fusty attitudes about marriage equality. It's all tied in with their view that same sex relationships are inherently wrong and shameful.

    While Australia has a very conservative government, it will not be on the agenda. Maybe if Labor are returned to power it will get through. I hope so, because Australia is lagging well behind most advanced democracies on this issue.
     
  13. STM29

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    Well, let's take our german chancellor Angela Merkel as an example. It was at the end of 2013 (as I recall) when she explained in a TV interview why there is still no marriage equality and why homosexuals are not allowed to adopt children together. She said that she has an uncomfortable gut feeling and is insecure about it.
    At least an honest answer and not a meaningless political phrase.
    But when that's all she has to say, that's ridiculous and I can't take it serious...I mean, come on! Gut feelings to explain this injustice?


    But in general there can be so many different reasons why people disagree. Most people I met that are against marriage equality have a problem with homosexuals in general and argue with stuff like "it's not natural, blah blah"

    There were some really good points mentioned already from you guys!
     
  14. Christiaan

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    They really don't realize that gay people form relationships that are meaningful. They really don't. They see it as a vice. They see it, at best, as something like smoking cigarettes or drinking alcohol, as in something that you do for purely hedonistic, carnal reasons. Some people will never see a gay relationship as actually meaningful, and they refuse to recognize it as significant or important.

    Here is the kind of tirade that I have for such people: "What this makes me think is that you just have it in your heads that we're all just tramps, and I resent that. To me, it makes you look trashy, yourself. You're expressing that opinion for no reason except to insult me. Furthermore, you are also causing me and my partner to incur significantly greater living expenses, and I would be glad to sit down and figure out just how much you are costing our household and have cost our household since our unofficial wedding. If you had any integrity, you would get out your checkbook, and you would reimburse us right here on the spot because that is a small part of what you owe us. Besides that, you have caused us unnecessary grief and needless trauma, and there is no way that you could ever change the fact that your behavior has contributed to us being all the more emotionally weary and disillusioned with the human race. That's something that you can't fix with a check. You can't fix damage faith, even if you want to. Gay people, particularly youth, continue to suffer from rampant suicide because you choose to force them to grow up in a world where they are nothing. Can you bring them back to life? If you're a miracle-worker, then get started now. If not, then try just changing your behavior. You can't change the fact that you've been a jerk, but it's not too late to stop being a jerk. This isn't a matter of casual opinion for me like it is for you, but this is stuff that affects my quality of life every day. Being gay in a world where gay people are treated as nothing is the reality that I wake up to every day, and I have to face people like you every day. Gay people may be a minority, but the majority of gay rights supporters are straight people, like you, and Christians, like you. The difference is that they have a conscience. When you apply to rejoin the human race, make sure you bring one with you. Look me in the eye: I am moral accountability, and I am watching you."

    A sharp look usually communicates the same sentiments. I am one of those gay guys who can cut a person down with a look, and considering the hang-dog expressions on people I've struck with that look, I really think I get all of that across in an instant's communication. I have the vorpal gaze.

    The reason some people think they have a right to impede the advancement of your rights is that they really are stupid enough to believe that you're eventually going to just go away or give up. They really think that if they just "stand their ground," all this gay rights stuff will pass like a bad cold, and things will go back to what they think is "normal," back to their sense of absolute entitlement and lack of moral accountability for how they behave toward others. It's not that they don't know how much harm they are causing you and others. They just don't have a moral conscience, and they don't want to be held accountable.
     
  15. mangotree

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    You said it brother.
     
  16. Bi in MD

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    Obviously I cant speak for other countries because I am not familiar with their political dynamics, however, the fight for gay rights, or the fight for any change in society reminds me of threading a needle.
    You put the thread up to the eye of the needle, now, if you try to shove it hard, the thread bends and goes in every direction but where it is intended, not too likely its going to make it through the eye. Yet, if you take that thread and move it slow and gentle, most of the time it will slip through and give you what you want for the end product.
    Asking people for change that does not affect them is the same thing, if you try too hard and too fast, they might not accept it, not that they hate it, or that they are afraid, but more that its change, people dont like change in general, and gay marriage is a change that is not going to affect the vast majority in one way or the other, so its not important. Safest to leave things as they are.
    back up, try again but do it more gently and a little slower.
    Even if the supreme court rams it through, you may get married, but you will not get the immediate respect from those that currently object to it for no good reason.
     
  17. greatwhale

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    One could call this gradualism, and on the surface it appears reasonable, however, life operates on a faster timescale, children are often involved, and decisions need to be made. Does going more gently mean people have to postpone marriage until it someday becomes more accepted? This gradualism falls along the line of "don't ram it down my throat" and stop pushing your lifestyle on me, sorry, no one is pushing anything on anyone.

    I would use another metaphor: ripping off a Band-Aid, it stings for a bit, but it is temporary. It is in the exercise of the right to marry that it will become accepted, not the other way around. If, as I suspect, the supreme court will very narrowly accept same-sex marriage, further anti-discrimination lawsuits will no doubt come down the line. That is, lamentably, also a kind of gradualism, but then, politics is indeed the art of the possible.

    Same-sex marriage is not about pushing any "agenda" it is a call for the right to be included in an institution called marriage that everyone else enjoys, it is equality before the law. It is a right that has been denied for too long, and the court is there to redress this injustice. I agree that it will take time for people to see this as acceptable, but I suspect that there are those who will never accept it, regardless of the passage of time.
     
  18. Bi in MD

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    I dont disagree, and to be honest when my current marriage ends, and it will, if I ever lose my damn mind and get married again, it is going to be another male this time. ( no offense women)

    First we need to clear up the misconception that marriage is a right for anyone, hetero or not, it is not a right. so, there is no civil rights violation.
    Next is that everything that affects our ( yes I said our as in mine too ) community is not an issue that requires legislation and new law. I point to this push for equality in the work place, people are afraid of coming out because they can be fired for being gay etc... Did you know that the reality is that gay men make more on average than straight men? why would anyone want that to change? The only way someone is going to be fired for being gay is if they act out on it at work. same as a straight, go ahead and make some advance on the ladies in the office and see how fast your ass in on the curb.
    every thing is not an issue, somethings are just life.

    Take this police brutality against blacks, Baltimore for example, do you know why it looks so bad? 1, baltimore is majority black, it stands to reason that the majority of arrests will be black. 2, the papers dont run the death out of, if they even report at all when this type of thing happens to a white male. Out of the last three cases only one was worthy of public Ire, and that was the one in New York were the cops choked the guy to death. The one in Baltimore was not the fault of the police.

    So, in short, we can and will get the privilege to marry, (notice I did not say right?) but you can be certain that the problems it will open up are going to be greater than ever as various groups and organizations scramble to find ways to discriminate against those couples.

    same sex couples will one day be just as accepted as opposite sex couples, but the public opinion is not going to be altered when the Supreme Court makes a ruling to make all marriage a right. then, there are other doors that are opened.. and no, Im not going down that married to animals or toasters etc.. road. but, other legitimate situations that are currently not recognized.

    P.S.
    I am NOT posting this opinion to piss people off,
     
  19. Kaiser

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    Because the gracious heterosexuals want to spare us non-heterosexuals from the horrors of marriage.

    'Tis very kind of them, I think.
     
  20. Pret Allez

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    Because they are malicious. Next question.