Stop Talking About Race/Sexuality/Gender!

I have no problem with people talking about racism, but I'm honestly concerned by how often you post on an LGBT forum about it. Just you, from what I've seen. Not that you can't, but I'm sure there's forum dedicated to it where you'd find more like-minded people on that topic...

 

... But you dedicated all of it to examples related to race, except for an afterthought (i.e. what's in brackets). Even the video was...

How you just worded it would have been a much more general way, but hell you could probably have just said LGBT people. Idk I'm bossy.

 

Maybe you talk about race too much and should engage in other discussions from time to time.

 

In my opinion, I think that it's important for anyone to be concerned with this type of stuff and I think people from the lgbt community should be aware of these issues

 

Your criticism is completely unacceptable.

Racism and sexism are just as much concerns of the LGBT community as homophobia and transphobia.

 

Didn't Morgan Freeman say the solution to racism was to stop talking about it?

Pretending a problem doesn't exist doesn't make it go away.

 

Just to make something clear:

The sixth bullet-point of Empty Closet's Code of Conduct reads as follows:

You can argue that people should stop talking about certain social issues if that happens to be your view; however, your thoughts on the topics that other members post about and the discussions they attempt to have on this site are not appropriate here. Members on this site are welcome to focus large portions of their posts to whatever subjects they wish. If you are not interested in speaking on that subject, then you can easily browse past their post.

This is something to keep in mind for those who have and will continue to post within this thread. Empty Closets is a forum primarily for LGBTQIA individuals; however, it has never come with an expectation of LGBTQIA exclusive topics of discussions. Given the various forums on this site, I am positive that we are all very aware of that fact; therefore, we should know why some of the posts in this thread are not appropriate. Lets leave the discussion to the topic presented.

 

Sorry about that, ZenMusic, and others whom I may have offended.

More on topic, I don't believe that racism (or at least the forms more associated with nationalities/ethnicity as opposed to skin colour/race) will stop existing ever. Mostly because of the fact that honestly, the western world is not far along that line as a whole, yet we still have so many parts of the world to even begin the cultural acceptance process. As long as one group of people start moving somewhere even sliiiightly foreign, someone will complain. Thus, we must talk about the subject in order to... well... shame those who say things like "Let's just kick them brownies out of our town!", or "I'm going to get revenge on these white people!", for example. So yeah, let's keep talking about it.

Still, on the other hand, as someone who of the majority in their region, I don't go out of my way to disadvantage, discourage, or exclude people of other races and ethnicities (I can't say I specifically go out of my way to help them, either), and because of that I can personally find it irritating when one says things that generalizes me or puts me in a position of supposed responsibility. Maybe I'm just not seeing things clearly, but as (social) racism isn't a big part of the society where I live, it doesn't feel great to be called an oppressive white devil. Therefore, it's quite obvious that racism is not a one-way street, it's a 16-lane roundabout and I don't know when or if it'll stop, so I just try to not think about it.

 

Talking about it isn't fighting it. It's only helping keep the topic alive. If you really want to make a difference, take a stand for someone when you see them being attacked. Then, drop it and move on. The world doesn't consistently need to be worked up. Ignorance is bliss. While I believe there is a proper balance, that is something I firmly believe. How can we enjoy our lives when we're constantly feeding negative mindsets?

 

Yes, topics about all subjects are welcome, but this is, I think, the third topic from the same person on the same issue in the past month (that I've seen)? It's getting to the point it's a little spammy, and I am not sure why there is an issue with pointing out something you view as being potentially spammy. The OP should have a good idea of the opinions of EC members from his topic a few weeks ago. Let's be honest, the only reason you have issue with what Onyx Wolf said is because you agree with the OP's view. His post was hardly disrespectful relative to some of the other things I have seen allowed on these forums. Sad to see such a bias from a moderator.

I have to agree it's odd the fixation about this particular topic. We know it stirs debate and leads nowhere as it has in the last fifty threads about it... Again don't see the problem in pointing that out.

---------- Post added 23rd May 2015 at 12:19 AM ----------

I just counted, that makes 8 race related threads started by the OP in 3 months. I'd think 7 was enough!

---------- Post added 23rd May 2015 at 12:22 AM ----------

And in relation to the actual topic, I haven't heard many people say this about sexuality to that point that it seems to be a problem.

 

There are some people who make everything about race (or gender, sexuality), even when it has nothing to do with them. I think minority groups develop sensitivity to discrimination for something they have no control over, so when you point a potential issue out, someone who has no experience is probably not going to think you're over-reacting or making things up.

You could try educating them, changing your approach so it doesn't seem as exclusionary and accusing, but some people don't want to "get it", so that's a wasted effort. I do think the US is pretty screwed up in terms of race relations - everything is described in terms of black vs white. People from other countries, even other "black people, think it's immature and unhealthy.

But yes, playing ignorant and denying a problem is the more convenient approach for most privileged groups, at least initially. It takes effort to realize there's an issue, to recognize your own part in it, and to take steps to change it. Most seem to care only when something affects them directly. Drawing parallels between you and them might grab their attention more.

 

I don't think there may ever be a solution to this problem. As long as the majority has their powers they will continue to perpetuate institutionalized discrimination. Our government clearly favors the majority. But if this problem were to go away and hypothetically speaking this majority becomes a minority, we have the problem of their pride becoming a new motive. A few of them will lash out more bitterly then before because these people would be so damnadamant and entitled to a position that is by birth only theirs. I feel this situation is similar to Hitler's and how he brought back the Aryan race back into power and made them more prominent when their influence was nearly insignificant. They fought back harder under a single mind but what may occur in our case is distinct hate groups taking back their "stolen glory" more aggressively.
Debating serves no purpose if we cannot act. Even awareness does nothing because awareness requires thought and deliberation and in all the mundane details of our day, people just default to ignorance because it is easy. It just happens without us even trying. Ignorance is a powerful thing.

 

I have no issue with discussion about Racism/sexism/homophobia/or transphobia

I do, however, take issue with a certain trend of redefining these things to be as broad of a net as possible. Taking it so far as to inevitably come to the conclusion that being white means you're racist, being male means you're sexist, being straight means you're homophobic, and being cis means you're trans-phobic.

To put into another phrasing.

I'm more than happy to talk about Racism/sexism/homophobia/transphobia as long as the conversation is accepting of outside ideas and willing to actually engage in a meaningful dialog.

Lately though what I've seen of people involved in these discussions being a straight white cis male means you've got all the privellege and by being born as you were you're the most evil human being alive and you're very existence makes you a racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobe despite you having no control over how you're born.

This has lead to things like #killallmen and my personal favorite the push for "National Castration day"

 

^Well, what I can't stand is this idea that white people can't be victims of racism and that non-white people can't be racist. As long as people keep saying things like that, it's going to be hard to take their causes seriously.

 

It depends on how you define racism, doesn't it? In theory, white people could have been oppressed historically on the basis of their skin colour, experience microaggressions and systemic bias against them on the basis of their skin colour, be typecast and stereotyped on the basis of their skin colour, be deemed ugly on the basis of their skin colour...

That isn't what has happened, though. Native people have been exploited and North America has practically been built upon what we've stolen from them. They continue to be ignored and silenced by the government, made invisible by the lack of media representation, and looked down upon by general society falsely for being leeches and lazy.

Black people have been victims of slavery, nearly universally have faced negative slurs, and continue to be harmfully stereotyped and imprisoned or worse extremely disproportionately.

Chinese immigrants who came to help build the Pacific Canadian Railway worked the most, worked the dangerous areas, were judged unfairly, were ostracized and seen as job thieves while they as a workforce were simultaneously exploited. I could get into the head tax imposed upon Chinese immigrants that no other immigration group in Canada had placed upon them, or the stereotypes and lack of representation in media, slurs and harmful jokes that are made against Chinese people even still today, and so much more, but I won't.

I've only touched very briefly on 3 groups of people. White people have not been, in history, repeatedly oppressed because they were white. Today, white people can enjoy the whole range of personality and roles in media while minorities are typecast and represented in disproportionately low numbers. White people have tons of role models of their ethnicity and skin colour, while minorities don't. White people are the standard for beauty, and this is evidently clear in many ways.

Can white people be discriminated against? Absolutely, maybe because they're women or LGBT or lower class or disabled or not conventionally attractive, and so on.

Can white people be discriminated against on the basis of their skin colour? Maybe in some few microaggression situations where they're called a slur and other small instances. Without grasping at straws, it's difficult to showcase examples of them as a collective group being socially and perpetually being biased against by systems and institutions that hold power in society.

When we talk about racism, we have to be clear about what definition we're using. I'm using the sociological definition that details and implies a history of systemic oppression against people of colour on the basis of their non-whiteness. Oftentimes others use the definition of white people experiencing some slurs or anger against them because they're white, but this is almost always as an instance of a person of colour's reaction against the racism that they've faced their entire life, and projecting their anger onto an innocent white person. As we can see, the former is much worse than the latter, objectively.

If we're using the latter definition, then sure, a person from a minority can be racist to a white person. If we're using the former definition, then no, they can't be racist because people of colour do not hold societal power over white people and thus cannot oppress them.

It's beyond any one white person to blame. This flaw is in our systems. We can't ignore how white people have privilege. It does not mean white people are evil. To combat a social problem, we need a social solution. Part of that solution is talking about it, acknowledging the power imbalances, and acknowledging the privilege or lack of privilege that people have.

Note that white people have white privilege while nonwhite people lack it. This does not mean that a white person is born rich or male or is cisgender or straight or without disability and have the subsequent privilege on those accounts. People of colour can have male privilege or straight privilege, etc. White people can lack it. We cannot feasibly claim that people of colour have racial privilege, though, and that white people do not have white privilege. I haven't even gotten into intersectionality really because that would make this post more complicated than it needs to be.

 

How much is too much in terms of the posting habits of other members is not for you to decide. It is not for you to address publicly. If anyone feels that a member is spamming certain threads or topics, than that is a concern that needs to be relayed to the directly staff. It is certainly not something that we are going to derail a thread to discuss on the forums.

The topic of this thread is up for debate. This site policy is not. Additional questions and concerns can be directed at the staff on the Ask the Staff forum or reports. Otherwise, it is time to address the topic of the thread or move on.

 

Really personal attacks much and kind of creepy!


ZenMusic If you have these issues and for whatever reason need to get it out in the open more power to you. Sometimes people ignore these issues like they are not still a problem in society but they obviously are and you have a right to point them out. I personally always try to not overdo it on a issue but sometimes it is continuing problem and holding it in is not a healthy thing so I need to get it out. I apologize for my ignorance I have not read all your threads but I appreciate your concerns and enlightening the forum on these issues. Maybe just as a suggestion try to go into more of a personal standpoint like tell us of your personal experiences relating to racism. I always try to do that to make my posts more personable and relatable instead just of just stating facts. But with all that said and good intentions I think your doing what you feel is right and it does not matter what i think it matters what you think and how it makes you feel to express your feelings.