Is transgender the new 'stud' lesbian?

Because being trans has lately been brought to national attention, it's only natural that some rise in it's "popularity" would occur. Personally I think it's ridiculous for anyone to want to be transgender or identify in that way because if they actually understood what that meant, I don't think they'd want that.

There is a statistical amount of the population that is suspected to be transgendered. This was around 0.01% to 0.03% before the rise in national awareness. It's not plausible that that number would suddenly and exponentially jump.

Then again... there is no such thing as being "trans enough" but still, you cannot just choose to be trans all of a sudden. A big misunderstanding when it comes to the transgender community (from an outside-looking-in perspective) is that we figured out we were trans because of gender expression and/or stereotypes. This couldn't be more wrong.

Transgender (FtM) doesn't mean that you are really masculine in clothing and style, and it doesn't even mean that you feel more at home with male pronouns and names. A trans identity results from a person's relationship with their own body and assigned sexual characteristics - not gender stereotypes. The fact that so many stud lesbians now seem to be identifying as trans*masculine would - in my opinion - point to a psychological reason rather than neurological.

 

^Rhys be on fire.

Yes. I could not have said it better.

I don't want to call people "hobby trans" (and here comes the but), but I do think people should be more considerate before doing something that seems fun to them when it's a seriously nerve-wrecking, life-defining experience for many others.

To clarify: I'm not offended by the thread. It's not a comfortable topic for me, it makes me feel insecure, but it is important and should be addressed.

 

DrinkBudweiser... if it wasn't a little past 8 AM, I'd give you a better response. But I wanted to say, thank you for bringing this up, because it is important. I'm sure, before I find time to weigh in, others will have and possibly better than I could.

 

Over time things will most likely change back. In general, if someone cis tries to truly transition they will start suffering from gender dysphoria and it won't end well. Hopefully over time the visibility will focus on how real this really is for us, how traumatic and painful it can be to live as a lost and disconnected person in a body that feels wrong in the worst way possible...

 

Interesting. I've always found it curious how a lot of the LG folk who were most uncomfortable with transgenders were themselves gender-variant in some way (a few of my trans friends would say, "That's because they're closeted trans/in-denial!" but I think the issue is more complex than that).

With visibility and rights increasing for the T, I think self-discovery and coming out for many young people becomes even more layered than it would have been... thirty years ago, since there are now more terms, more options. That said, I do have my own worries that some might see trans as taking the "easy" way out, which seems to go hand-in-hand with concepts related to assimilation.

While some might be doing it out of confusion or fitting in, there are others who didn't have these advances available to them before, and are truly happier now. I doubt all masculine women (and feminine men) are going to disappear overnight, replaced by trans men and women, because most are happy with their bodies, even if society has yet to catch up with their "roles".

I also understand that it's quite common for trans men to have a "butch lesbian" background, which isn't surprising, considering how connected the lesbian, feminist, and trans male communities are. In some ways, I'm envious, since (straight) cross dressers, gay men, and trans women seem to exist on totally different spheres, with little holding them together. At the same time, issues like these seem to be less common.

Anyway, it's complex, since gender-variant, transsexual, and gay communities have existed side-by-side for a long time. There weren't always strict barriers drawn between terms and communities, and in many countries, there still aren't. Some hold a more rigid, clinical view regarding transgenderism, while others are more let live.

Perhaps asking yourself why it bothers you so much would be a good idea? I know a few butch women who say they feel betrayed. I was for the longest time bothered by overly effeminate men, partly because they reminded me of my own "feminine" traits. Women have bound their chests even before trans rights took off, so I wouldn't say bodily discomfort is the only criteria.

 

Yeah, I understand this. I won't deny that a lot of them are truly trans, but I think younger people these days are confused on what trans even means. I have seen people identify as trans, simply for being gender non-conforming yet having NO gender dysphoria at all. You can be a trans man and be feminine which is what people don't get....it has nothing to do with gender roles.

I too am a more masculine lesbian compared to everyone else on this site, but I'm not really "all the way". I consider myself more soft butch/chapstick. However, I do not even see other androgynous lesbians anymore.

I just really hope that people are coming out as trans because they truly are and not just following gender roles.

 

Aren't roles a part of the experience, for most people, though? When a young trans man/woman imagines their ideal life as being someone's husband/wife, or a father/mother, those are roles. I'd say for most people, it's a combination of social, mental, and biological reasons, with some leaning towards a direction (or directions).

Some radical feminists argue that gender is entirely socialized, and that it's impossible to truly "feel like a man/woman" unless you were born and raised as one. I don't think something being learned makes it less valid, though.

I've never liked hearing "confused" from gay men and lesbians, since it mirrors what heterosexuals have been saying about those groups. I might have my doubts, but I'll never assume to know better than what someone is going through.

Maybe it is a trend, maybe it's not. If so, be sure it'll pass, just like others before. Someone online said that genderqueer was the new bisexual, and I thought, "Well, sh*t." :lol: And no, it wasn't directed at you specifically, but I do see blogs and posts describe the supposed tension that exists between trans men and butch lesbians, except I've had more experience hearing the trans guys side of the story.

You're not alone in feeling they're making light of "true" transgender struggles, either. There are even more, and more serious, dialogues within the trans community regarding who is more "valid" or "acceptable". It's ironic, since most of us at one time, by some people, would have been considered "pretenders". :dry:

I'm not even sure the medical community, which started many of the procedures and guidelines to live by, has caught up with the political/social movement. One of the myths I'd like to dispel is that it's solely a young people's thing: there are several men and women who are old enough to be our grandparents who have been involved in drag or what have you, and recently decided to transition. Again, more opportunities and increased acceptance.

Along with supporting transgenders rights to live how they please, I'm also interested in breaking down many social norms related to gender, so other genderqueer and non-conforming folk don't have to go through hell for not fitting in! And yes, this sometimes puts me at odds with more conservative folk who wish to assimilate and be seen as "normal".

 

I take this back. I do NOT feel insecure about this thread anymore! (!)

You guys are awesome, I just wanna snuggle this thread into oblivion!

DrinkBudweiser and gravechild, you are both really cool!

Hugsies!

 

Of course, I wish everyone the best in coming out and finding safety, acceptance, and understanding, trans or not.

Sometimes I feel like mediator, when these sorts of discussions come up, and it's always been a source of curiosity, to see what those placed firmly on one side or the other think.

In the past, professionals thought of transsexuals as "extreme homosexuals" (which is pretty absurd, considering the variety of sexualities represented), and think some people still confuse the two. Maybe LGB having more gender-variant examples, or a larger percentage of self-identified LGB populations within the trans community play a part? Hmm.

 

I guess it depends how roles are defined. The better term to use would have been stereotypes. I fit some masculine stereotypes, yet I'm a woman. However, I have no desire to be a "dad" or a "husband", and I can understand that being a different thing. But it seems like a lot of genders are just made up out of stereotypes and dress style.

I should clarify that I do NOT mean to insult trans people or say that someone is less trans for whatever reason. I support trans people and the right for them to be themselves. However, I struggle to understand what the meaning of gender even is at this point. It seems now like anyone who has a vagina and is masculine/androgynous in expression has to be FtM or genderqueer and I feel like that erases a lot of us who do not consider ourselves this way (including trans men who wear dresses and makeup).

Of course, I'm sure a lot of trans men have hid under the "butch lesbian" label for a long time and I'm not saying the OP's friends are not trans. It just seems weird that we're living in a backwards society where everyone has to fit assigned gender stereotypes 100% to have a certain gender attached to them.

 

I think one of the more amusing things about gender is that somehow people who are cis struggle to explain what it means to be female or male and still expect someone who is trans to prove that they really are female or male. There is something much more deeply ingrained about being a person of a specific gender beyond the body and constructed gender role/identity. I feel this, I truthfully can't know if someone who is female really feels like I do but my intuition says that they do. When someone suggests that you are trans because of the way you act, it's natural for you to feel discomfort at the thought and there is nothing wrong with feeling this way. Because, in the end, you really are female and there is no real reason for you to think otherwise unless you know deep down that you are male and feel gender/body dysphoria about being female.

 

I once read in an online article about how transmen didn't like to date butch women because it was a blow to their masculinity because the butch female would be more "manly" than the tranman.

I suppose transmen are as fragile in their identity as cismen :lol:.

 

Yes, 'cause they are after all men, a fact that some cismen seem to forget.

I don't know what's going on with your social circle, Budweiser. As someone mentioned, if they are not really trans, the'll stop and go back at some point. Everyone has the right to explore gender, and tell the world about it : It's called freedom of expression, and if you want it for yourself, you should allow the rest to enjoy the same 'privilege'.

And last, but not least, all the nuances of butch lesbian can look and sound even more 'masculine' than some men. Gender expression is not the same as gender. At the end of the day, a man is a man, even if he wears glasses and is president of a chess club, he is a man.

I have no idea what's wrong with that... Transmen are not after exterminating butch afaik...

 

Yes, it's not easy to fake being transgender, and they will probably revert if they are truly masculine women. If not, though, it's possible all of your friends are trans men. I hope they know that just because they are masculine doesn't mean they have to identify as male... I am not sure about anything yet, but I may be trans male, and if I am, I would be considered very feminine or androgynous. I'm not that manly at all even if I wish I was sometimes.

 

Unfortunately, this happens to be the plight of the Hard Butch/Stud. People have little understanding of how masculinity can present itself within a female. My Butch is also very masculine of center. It makes me sad that Butches/Studs feel that they are not ok as they are and that to truly harness masculine energy they have to transition. It sometimes is quite a journey for a very masculine Butch/Stud to be ok with who they are and with society in general. People should transition because they know nature made a mistake and they are in the wrong body(my ex was trans), not because they feel Butch/Stud is not a valid gender presentation.

One famous Butch/Stud is Ivan Coyote. She has written many gender books and talks about being Butch and how it is confusing for some. Also, read Stone Butch Blues. This is the gold standard for Hard Butches/Studs. In the book she goes through her life trying to learn self acceptance.

 

I mean, gender is something that's felt. Everyone experiences gender in a different way. I for one, don't experience gender at all, or at least that's what it feels like to me. Masuclinity doesn't mean male, as femininity doesn't mean female. I have a frien, who identified as lesbian for a very long time. He would always dress on the more masculine side. Okay, so about three weeks ago, he ended up coming out to me as transgender. He said he knew for a long time, just didn't come to terms with accepting it. I know some trans people who have no intention to transition, or are unable to transition. Though, not being able to transition doesn't make them any less of a trans person, and it doesn't invalidate their gender.

I don't know, those are just some of my short thoughts on this.