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The Thread About Privilege

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by ZenMusic, Jun 25, 2015.

  1. ZenMusic

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    People get very uptight and defensive whenever this subject comes up, especially when people start talking about intersectionality. I'm not sure people actually know what it is, so I'm going to say it down here.

    Privilege
    The dictionary definition states that privilege is
    a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group.
    The problem is that people want to think that everyone has the same oppurtunities and that they are on an even playing field and so on and so forth.When these people are confronted with stuff like this, it is in contradiction with the aforementioned notion and with that comes guilt. Most people don't want to feel as if they have an unfair advantage over people or that they got something unfairly.

    Stop feeling guilty.

    No-one is accusing you of anything, no-one is saying that you didn't work hard to get to where you were, no-one is saying you had everything handed to you. They are just saying you were born into a society that favours masculinity over femininity, or men over women, or light skin over dark skin or whiteness over blackness. You're not an awful person, you're just lucky.

    And this brings me onto intersectionality. A black man may be able to get into spaces a black woman cannot. A white gay man may not have to face as many challenges as a black gay man. A white woman may be able to get into spaces a black woman cannot.

    No-one is trying to take anything away from you. Embrace your privilege. Use it to do good things. Use it to get into spaces that someone else cannot and educate people. White women, the next time you're in the office and you hear your friends talk about how ghetto and ratchet their black neighbours are, educate them.

    Those are just my thoughts on it.
     
  2. Lipstick Leuger

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    Two thumbs up.

    This is exactly what I told my teens about this as well.
     
  3. MysteriousMadam

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    *gives you a standing ovation*
     
  4. The Wallflower

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    You started and ended your own thread, simultaneously.
     
  5. Steele

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    Couldn't have said it better myself.

    Everyone, listen to ZenMusic.
     
  6. Fallingdown7

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    Oh my gosh, thank you so much for this post.

    I think we all have privileges and disadvantages.

    I am white, cis, and thin, but also a woman, gay, and disabled so It's a pretty even field for me. I never felt offended when black women talk about white privilege, as I feel thankful that I can go outside every day and not have to worry about being shot.

    It's sad how we as majority groups have to be so sensitive.

    Now if minority groups were sprouting crap like some of the SJW's do and use "privilege" as an excuse, I can see the justification in being angry, definitely. But why do we have to get angry for having advantages? Why do we want to make our lives seem worse? Why can't we sympathize with others?
     
  7. TENNYSON

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    The key point is not feeling guilty. We can recognize that we have advantages in society for various reasons, but we don't need to feel guilty about who we are.

    I was afraid this was going to be some kind of ultra-condescending claptrap, but was delighted to see that it was not :slight_smile:
     
    #7 TENNYSON, Jun 25, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2015
  8. Xander27

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    Thanks for pointing out that privilege is a thing, but that it's not something we have to feel bad about, but something we do need to work on changing (at least that's what I got out of this)
     
  9. Michael

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    Posts and folks like Zen are the reason why I keep coming back to EC.
     
  10. Purp

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    Dang, this was on point. Kudos to ya
     
  11. Pret Allez

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    Here's the way I like to look at it. When a person has privilege, they need to understand that they are able to do things that any person ought to reasonably be able to do. It's just that others can't. And those who have privilege need to recognize it and use their privilege to make sure the field is at least level for everyone else.

    I gave an example in the thread that was soliciting opinions about bisexual privilege. (The developing consensus seemed to be that it doesn't exist, or at worst, it's being confused with straight-passing privilege.)

    The example I gave was of the difference between how privilege discourse is sometimes abused as a silencing tactic based on guilt, rather than a bridge-building, empowering discourse. The former was an example of unprincipled criticism. The other was an example of a polite, eminently reasonable request.

    Example one: "I'm a woman, and you're a man, so you have nothing valuable to say."

    Example two: "I'm a woman, and many men don't listen to me. They listen to you. So when I'm talking about my lived experience, if a man tries to interrupt me and take over the conversation, please step up and protect my right to speak."

    In these sharply contrasting interchanges, we can see that I'm making a request of another person based on privilege, but in the second case, I'm assuming good faith from the other, and I'm making him part of the solution.

    So yes. Clearly privilege exists. We enjoy it at some times, and not others.

    At work, I enjoyed male privilege today (at the cost of social dysphoria, since I don't feel safe to be out about my gender at work, my coworkers are openly cissexist, and I have to present masculine). One of the new employees, 22 years old, started arguing with a female coworker of mine over a point of implementation. She was telling him the clear reasons why what he was trying to do was a bad idea. He wasn't listening.

    So I had to come over. I calmly rehashed the same points my female coworker had said. With each explanation, I mentioned, "like she was saying, X, Y, and Z. That's why you can't do that." I think I said "like she was saying" five times during that conversation.

    Why? Because I knew that my perceived maleness, not the force of argument, was what was being persuasive in this circumstance. But I wanted him refocused on what was being said. Not who was saying it. So every single time, I was subtly telling him: "okay, you believe me now? Well, that's what she just told you."

    So yes. Privilege exists. And we have to use it to put power into everyone's hands.

    Remember, the community is only going to be strong together.

    A person with privilege may not even have to do or not do anything under certain circumstances. All that we need to do sometimes is to have empathy and to listen.

    ~ Adrienne
     
  12. QueerTransEnby

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    Sometimes, it isn't necessarily what someone says but how they say it though.
     
  13. Kaiser

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    How dare you bring sensibility into this!

    *Flips over table, loosens up tie*

    We're gonna argue, remain divided, and be counterproductive, God damn it!










    <3
     
  14. Christiaan

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    Yeah, people do bristle when they are told that their lives are somehow automatically easier, when they might face other challenges. I am white, for instance, but I am also gay. I am also diagnosed with disorders over which I have been bullied and discriminated against more than I ever was about being gay. I am also very young-looking, which actually doesn't make me as fortunate as some people tell me: coupled with my disorders, it makes people think I'm a little nutty to actually pursue a career that is commensurate with my intelligence, and I am met with condescension from people who are really much less competent than I am and not even half as physically powerful.

    Talking about "privilege" in a general way is fine. It is a real thing. However, when you imply that it's the only dimension of a human being, as if that person must have had a total cakewalk all through life, that's not very nice.

    That said, privilege is, again, a real thing. If you are cis-gender, you can walk into a public restroom that matches your gender-identity without anyone thinking twice about it, whereas, if you are trans, some companies or even entire states try to make policies that would force you to do otherwise, and if you are not "passable," some people stare or can be very rude, such as by storming out and complaining to a beleaguered and overworked manager to whom you would then have to explain the laws that would technically give you the right to sue his company out of existence; however, the only way you could actually make that worth anything would be to get sound witnesses to testify on your behalf and depart without complaint, or you could actually end up having to deal with police officers even if you did have the law and moral conscience on your side. What you're more likely to do, unless you have uncommon courage, is just back down.

    It's not about you, but it's about other people's prejudice, ignorance, and sometimes just evil nature. You have to realize that some people are simply evil: they like having leave to throw off on a perceived social inferior to make themselves feel more powerful, and they impose justifications and bullshit on their behavior, like "moral decency," after the fact, even though their intentions were simply those of a sadist.

    The place where talk of "privilege" goes wrong is the assumption that there is somehow a limited amount of prosperity, and somehow, for the black guys out there to have adequate employment, the white guys must have less adequate employment and "suffer" as much as their black peers. That's not how real life actually works.

    Discrimination is harmful to the sound functioning of society, in general. It creats pockets of unrest among homogeneous populations, and the problems associated with it can spread like contagion. Deeply segregated cities tend to have more rampant crime, and this is because of the problem of contagion, which results in a normalization of dysfunctional behavior, even elevating it to the status of being a part of that community's identity. That's the toll of segregation, and in some places, we aren't doing shit to fix it.

    We are creating problems that affect everybody, where there otherwise would be none. It is masochism. It is stupidity. That is why you ought to be worried about privilege.
     
  15. imnotreallysure

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    Being a white, cismale is pretty awesome, I have to admit. If it wasn't for my sexuality I'd be privileged in all aspects of my life. Grr. Oh well.
     
  16. Austin

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    "Check your priveledge" bitcheeeezzzzzz
     
  17. LiquidSwords

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    It's really dull when people talk about how particular qualities or circumstances of a person automatically make them privileged or not when there's about a million things which are going to determine how easy or hard life is for any one person. Being lgbt, ethnic minority, female, disabled etc doesn't necessarily make your life harder than every straight able bodied white male's, so I can understand the resentment someone like this might feel when someone tells them they're privileged even as they feel their life is shit. I suppose that's why the concept of intersectionality, and consideration for a broader range of factors is important in working out how privileged someone actually is.

    My friend's dad died when he was 12ish and his teenage years were probably made harder by that than my black friend's were for being black, or mine were for being gay.

    Also, it's funny how a lot of middle class tumblr/sjw types really don't care much about the biggest factor of all in determining privilege which is the amount of money your parents have. Far more than anything else being born into a family which is comfortable financially is the biggest leg up in life you can get. Being lgbt or ethnic minority or something like this is still a huge thing in society in terms of how easy it is to get on but I still think life is more a struggle for the kid born into poverty than it is for a middle class gay or black kid. Again, intersectionality and personal circumstance considered, but as a rule.

    Fighting for economic equality is much less of a trendy cause though so

    Another huge factor when thinking about privilege is appearance. I think it's hard to overstate just how massive the impact of how someone looks can be. It determines social standing and how you are treated by everyone around you, the type of partner/s you can be with and possibly the type of jobs you can get as well as simply how confident you are and happy you are with yourself. It would be ideal if society cared a lot less about appearance but I don't really see how things could ever change, so I'll forgive people for not banging on about it as much as the other stuff. It's interesting to think about though.

    ---

    I'm a white cis male, able bodied from a very middle class background. Being gay has meant my life hasn't always been a breeze and there have been times when I've been deeply unhappy, but now that I'm as comfortable as I am with the whole gay thing I can't really claim my day to day life is a struggle. I'm happy with life as of right now so I must be privileged I guess ?
     
  18. Simple Thoughts

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    Neat.

    The concept or privilege being brought up without guilt being thrown into the mix. That's a refreshing change of pace from current trends.


    I still believe privilege is situational and locations based.


    In areas where I live you can get away with quite a bit of rather racist things. My boss at work tells our only black employee stuff like "You're a grain of pepper in the salt shaker" and several times has jokingly told him that they should form a "Klan" together. I don't think he's racist himself, I just think he's stupidly insensitive and just says whatever pops into his head. The point being that in my area he can get away with that.


    Now I imagine if where I work was located somewhere like L.A. and he said some of that shizzle there'd have already been a lawsuit filed against the company and he'd have been fired for racial discrimination.



    I dunno if intersectionality considers location at all ( beyond 1st world/third world ) but if you ask me it should be considered. Especially in the U.S. going from one state to the next can a lot of times be like walking into a new country.
     
  19. TENNYSON

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    Same. 2/3 ain't bad, though.
     
  20. AlamoCity

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    1/3 ain't bad, either :lol:.