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Bisexual Erasure

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Taly, Jul 8, 2015.

  1. Taly

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    OK, I'll work to handle this topic with tact, and this is NOT a rant, it's a discussion starter. I believe this is a touchy-feely subject for some people and I expect everyone to be polite - or at the very least understanding - about this.


    But honestly; coming from someone who identifies as bisexual (despite stronger preference to men) - there's a few things I don't understand here, and these are things I see from everywhere, and even people within the LGBT+ community that seem to have this type of mentality. You see this often times in the media.

    And that is simply - why do people think bisexuality doesn't exist? Don't get me wrong here - but I've seen many, many times, where someone has said "oh; that person is obviously straight/gay - even though they like to 'think' they are attracted to both sexes" or straight up "bisexuals don't exist, you're either this or that"

    Why do people have this connotation that sexuality is just ONE CONCRETE thing?

    I think a lot of people out there are bisexual; more than what people know, and definitely more than what they'd like to admit. Mostly because I'm under the belief that sexuality is a VERY fluid thing. Most animal species are bisexual, and humans are not just one-sided creatures in ANY sense of the word.... (Unless maybe through closed-minded social conditioning which is for another thread.) Even I have attraction to women. (relatively small attraction compared to men, but that's still considered within the realm of bisexuality)

    I mean, did I miss a memo here? I feel attracted to both sexes to some degree; but the idea of bisexuality is that you're attracted to both sexes PERIOD. It doesn't directly correlate to how strong it is; if you find the idea of being attracted to men and women, then you're on the bisexual spectrum. I don't know why (seemingly many) people feel as though everyone goes one way in sexuality. Some people are like that... But why do a lot of people think this way?

    I even hear this on LGBT+ forums and communities - not that I'm spreading anything bad about anyone, or anything on here. But just.... I don't know.

    Are people denying that something exists because they feel like they're supposed to believe sexuality is something defined? What do you guys think about this?
     
  2. Sarii

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    I don't think I've ever heard the argument of "bisexuals don't exist"
     
  3. Anastaisa_Lynn_14

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    I think it's hard for people that aren't bisexual to imagine being bi, because even I thought at one time that bi people were people that just couldn't settle down with just one person but I later learned that was polygamy. So I think it's just hard for people to imagine liking guys and girls at the same time.
     
  4. Juli

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    When I was calling myself bi, I got a lot of what you're talking about; my stepdad said that if you like girls, you like girls, so you're a lesbian (he turned out being right for the wrong reason). Another person kept saying that I'd have to "bat for one team or the other eventually". I hear what you're saying. I think people are confused and upset by the idea that somebody can be more loosely defined than gay or straight. I've even heard people say that if somebody has a gender preference they're not bi. It's really a load of bull.
     
  5. Gallatin

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    When folks express the view that they don't believe people who say they're bisexual and simply expect them to eventually come out as gay, isn't that sort of the same thing?

    It's not too often I see someone say flat out that bisexuals don't exist (though it happens). But what I described above is a (disturbingly) common sentiment.

    And before anyone says anything to the contrary - yes, I know that there are a lot of people who, in the course of coming out, use bisexuality as a sort of "stepping stone". And so that when someone says they're just waiting for a person to eventually come out as gay, it's probably because they've seen others do the stepping stone routine in the past. However, that doesn't make adopting that kind of stance any less fair to bisexuals out there. Bottom line, it's simply not cool to hear people say things like "just admit that you're gay", especially when the people saying it are part of the LGBT umbrella. Like, y'all are supposed to have our backs, not be second-guessing us.
     
  6. bicomplicated

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    Oh yeah. I've heard this bs. A lot of people don't understand bisexuality. They just can't wrap their head around it. A lot of people think you have to choose a side. And if you do end up with one gender... if you end up with the opposite sex oh you must be straight....if you end up with the same sex oh you must be gay/lesbian. No, you are still bi. sigh.
     
  7. gravechild

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    There are lots of reasons. Humans are very much tribal creatures, so I think many see bisexuals as "interlopers" - where do they put them? Also, while many can understanding being attracted to one sex or gender, due to socialization, they have a harder time imagining being attracted to both. It makes them think we're "greedy", "depraved", or just extra horny. To them, it might seem like we have a lack of boundaries: willing to do anyone/thing.

    No doubt, the whole, "bi now, gay later" thing also plays a part, perhaps more so with men, but in the end, the same message applies: experiences with and attractions towards men is the final say. Women "end up" with men, so they're "straight", and men end up with men, so they're "gay".

    I honestly think most people prefer or are used to thinking in terms of binaries, so those who don't fit the mold are problematic, and it's easier to just pretend they don't exist. Biracial people get the same thing, at least here in 'murica.
     
  8. sporn

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    I've dealt with bi erasure. It's annoying as hell. When I was about 15 I came out as bi to some people. They seemed to somewhat accept it, but they would act shocked if I showed any interest in girls. That proves that they didn't really believe I was bi.
     
  9. Christiaan

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    My partner had one constant male partner from 15 or so to his mid twenties. Both brought home women several times a month, threesomes included. They really liked women. The cause of the break-up? They both started suspecting the other of running around with another guy.

    Both were in happy heterosexual marriages. My partner was later in more gay romances, including me.

    Now, you can think what you want to, but I am not sure what to call them except bi. You can make up any BS explanation you want, but their bisexuality was consistent over the better part of a century.

    I would call a homoflexible guy "gay" for simplicity but not them. I do acknowledge that homoflexible guys exist and are distinct from "Kinsey 6" gay. I just see "bisexual" as more in 2-4 territory. My partner was a 3.
     
    #9 Christiaan, Jul 8, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2015
  10. Austin

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    It's not the same thing, and you just explained why. Many gay people use it as a stepping stone toward admitting to others they are gay. Why is it okay to think a straight guy might be gay, but it's wrong to say a bisexual guy might actually be gay? Saying you think someone may be gay rather than bisexual isn't the same as saying bisexuality is not real.
     
  11. Chip

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    There are a few ignorant people who claim that bisexuality doesn't exist, or that bisexual people are just gay people who haven't accepted themselves yet.

    But you know what? Don't worry about them. There are plenty of ignorant, bigoted people in the world, and they aren't worthy of anyone's time. Most people should only have two or three or four people in the world whose opinions matter. For everyone else... their opinion is theirs, but shouldn't have any effect on you.

    And... on my rant soapbox: Would people please, please, please stop using the bullshit, emotional, dramatic word "erasure"? It contributes nothing and actually detracts from the credibility of any discussion. Nobody is "erasing" bisexuality. They might argue that it doesn't exist, but even that isn't "erasure." So... talk about the subject, but stop with the dramatic bullshit language.
     
  12. Tightrope

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    While I don't think Kinsey's work was carried out with the best protocols and the scale seems kind of static, I do believe he was a pioneer and so do a lot of important people, or he wouldn't be famous. And, while it's not the most perfect barometer, people do use it to this day to convey how they see their sexuality and that of others.

    I really think that most people are somewhere between .5 and 5.5. That's just what I think. That makes for a lot of bisexual folks. But I'm not trying to push the numbers up, either. There's that observation I hear every once in a while that, in every straight married person's life, there is that someone of their own gender who, for whatever reason, fetches their interest. It seems to be transitory, though, and they stay put. I've heard some gay men and lesbians also state that there is that someone of the opposite gender they could actually picture themselves having sexual or romantic liaisons with.
     
  13. kageshiro

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    At this point I'm fairly convinced the only time I'll ever take the word 'erasure' seriously in my entire life is in the context of like, a genocide or something on that level. No individual will ever be capable of 'erasing' an entire group of people no matter how much of a stupid bigot they are or how many other equally stupid bigot's agree with them.

    I agree sexuality is an elaborate spectrum and there are probably alot of people out there who label themselves something that may not entirely constitute their true sexuality with 100% accuracy. I label myself as Gay even though it is possible for me to get aroused by women to some extent. I'm fairly certain it's a common thing for Gays and Lesbians to experiment with porn of the opposite sex from time to time. Does that say anything about their orientation one way or another? Not necessarily but the point of labels in the first place is to simplify an otherwise abstract concept in a way that anyone can easily understand. So even if I am 0.000000000000261% attracted to women I'm perfectly comfortable identifying as gay and I think that should be good enough for everyone. Whether or not sexuality really is as black and white as some interpretations of it I don't believe that everyone is bi, and I'll take people's word that they're whatever they say they are so long as they aren't a tofu stir fry
     
  14. thepandaboss

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    I think it sort of depends on where you're coming from. I mean, I grew up in a home where my mother had gay best friends but she had trouble believing that bisexuality was real (and I ended up with a bisexual guy, so...we're both unicorns?).

    I think a lot of people sort of assume that if you're bisexual, you end up coming out as gay later. Of if you're a same-sex couple, you're assumed to be a 'gay couple' in a 'gay relationship' when not everyone in the relationship identifies as gay. And I know saying "couple where both people may or may not be the same sexuality" is a very, very clunky phrase but someone who's bisexual doesn't stop being a bisexual in a relationship.

    And I think we sort of need to get to the point where we can acknowledge that bisexuality is as valid as any other kind of sexuality and it's not just a stepping stone or a plea for attention (although there are cases of both happening, that can be admitted). But it all depends on context, what kinds of people you're around, and so on. I've been in groups that were really inclusive of bisexuality. But I've also been around people who were sort of like "well, what the hell's that? You're only 'one or the other'".
     
  15. Gen

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    Claims of heterosexuality are not innately met with doubt. You do not question the heterosexuality of others simply because they identify as such. You question them for defying norms or fitting into stereotypes. You question them as a result of their actions or essences. You do not question them simply for being heterosexual. Bisexuality is questioned on principle. That is the difference.

    The mindset,
    does not justify normalized skepticism being directed at an entire social group. Yes, statistically the likelihood of a bisexual person not truly being bisexual is higher than a homosexual not actually being homosexual. No one is doubting that because we all know that people tell those lies.

    However,

    Statistically, some types of people are more likely to be sex offenders. Some people are more likely to have certain prejudices. The list goes on. Meeting people with instinctive skepticism because you believe that they are more likely to commit certain actions, such as lying, is a form of social bias. Consistently making comments that call to questioning someone's character or authenticity as a result of their identity is a form of persecution.
     
  16. Batman

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    I've had people tell me that I'm just gay in denial and I'm like "k do you wanna look at my browser history"

    On one hand, I understand. For me, it's difficult to imagine only liking one sex. I really can't understand or imagine how it would feel to have half the earth's population mentally and/or physically off limits for partnership (this is when we start getting polysexuals saying that everyone's bi which in my opinion, is equally as annoying as "bi erasure"). And so I get why monosexuals don't understand how we're attracted to multiple sexes. Its hard to comprehend things we don't have experience with. That still doesn't make it okay though. Let's all just leave peoples' sexualities alone.
     
  17. wisefolly

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    I've never understood this at all. When I first met someone who was bisexual, he told me he had gotten all kinds of grief from different people IN THE GAY COMMUNITY and I was just baffled. He explained all the stuff people have mentioned here about people not believing in it etc. and I was like... that's dumb.

    Years later a friend who is absolutely accepting of gay people weirdly mentioned that she didn't believe people were bi: they could only be one or the other and it irritated her when they couldn't accept which one they truly were. It was such a bizarre kind of logic that I didn't even say anything---there's no point in arguing with someone who holds such strong convictions.
     
  18. Linthras

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    Not this directly, but I've repeatedly hear people say they don't believe it when somebody comes out as bisexual. Including on this site.

    ---------- Post added 9th Jul 2015 at 09:59 AM ----------

    It's not okay to say either.

    It is when people consistently do it and when the person they're talking about identifies as bisexual. You don't get to doubt people's sexuality, especially people you know next to nothing about or people who've given you no reason to think they'd lie about such a thing.

    ---------- Post added 9th Jul 2015 at 10:01 AM ----------

    Chip, I agree with most of what you said, but you don't liking a particular word doesn't mean it's wrong or dramatic.
    Erasure is a fitting word, because such statements contribute to image that bisexuality isn't real, ie it removes bisexuality as a genuine orientation. A synonym for removal is erasure.
     
  19. HunGuy

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    Most people tend to think in black and white, there's no middle ground. Like... me.
     
  20. Kaiser

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    Somebody needs to erase this subject, LOL.

    It isn't really worth more than a scuffle for. Bigger fish...

    Okay, some folks may think/believe/know that bisexuals are the baby steps to full-fledged homosexuality.

    I probably shouldn't be dating them anyway, let alone getting heavily involved with, if they're like this. I'll stick with those who believe in the mythical bisexual.

    If somebody wants to use 'bisexual' for themselves, okay. Whatever works for you. I know better than to judge every bisexual the same, like race or gender. If my liking the entire spectrum is the worst thing ever to happen to you, you're an idiot, and you can get the fuck out of my bed, LOL.

    Some may wind up one end or the other; gay or straight. But there is many of us who swim around in the middle.

    Not even going to touch the bisexual image... but will say, the 'bisexuals are non-stop sluts' stereotype is false. Either the bisexual orgy fairy is late or I'm not bisexualing (coining it!) properly.

    In conclusion...

    I'm Justine and I potentially like anybody. But you won't hear that, or see this middle finger, I don't exist.

    ^.~