What is your take on "Love the sinner, Hate the sin"?

Well, taken in that context it's bad.

But when it's rather "hate the offence, not the offender" or even sometimes "hate the oppression, not the oppressor" I can often agree, because we are born into societal positions of varying power and oppression is so engrained into our society simply "being nice" unfortunately doesn't cut it. THat's more of less my opinion.... might come back here later.
Great topic!

---------- Post added 12th Jul 2015 at 09:30 PM ----------

Well, taken in that context it's bad.

But when it's rather "hate the offence, not the offender" or even sometimes "hate the oppression, not the oppressor" I can often agree, because we are born into societal positions of varying power and oppression is so engrained into our society simply "being nice" unfortunately doesn't cut it. THat's more of less my opinion.... might come back here later.
Great topic!

 

Yeah i think this statement is stupid and lame and I even had a cousin who I came out too who I thought was accepting make that statement on the day gay marriage was made legal everywhere. Apparently her original statement just meant she supports me as as human being and she was not detailed enough about that in their reactions. I could yell at her and block her but she is family and even with the private hopes her fucked views change I will not argue with her about it.

 

I think it's a load of bullshit. Like you said, by "hating the sin, loving the sinner" with regards to homosexuality, you're hating an inherent part of someone that they have no control over. And the views that homosexuality is a choice, sin, mental disorder, etc. are part of what cause LGBT individuals to feel so much shame and disgust in themselves, even if those messages are packaged nicely or subtly.

Honestly, I think that assholes who say shit like "love the sinner, hate the sin" are no better than straight-up homophobes. I've posted this video before, but I really do believe that this is what "respectable" religious people who say this are doing, even if they don't realize it:

[YOUTUBE]gpeGoWMOCNk[/YOUTUBE]

 

Steele, bonus points for a Betty Bowers video! :icon_bigg

-

But seriously, it's a nonsense quote. Doesn't make sense to me. How can you love someone when you hate what the person does? Seems like an inner conflict to me.

 

I don't find anything wrong with it. Usually when someone says that, they don't mean to sound "judgmental", they mean well.

 

Every sentence with the word 'hate' on it is highly suspicious.

 

The statement itself is ridiculous and it reveals far more about the person saying it than anything else.

 

I am gay, therefore I am the sin.

It's just a sad excuse for god types to say "but I have gay friends".

 

Translation to people who aren't judgemental: "I don't hate you directly, I just hate this about you and think you don't deserve the same rights as me and will go to the eternal flames of hell."

It's basically a roundabout way to hate the sinner in this case, and many of the people I hear say it describe themselves as "compassionate conservatives", but they seem to lack empathy and compassion by saying that.

 

I agree wholeheartedly. How can you love someone when you hate what the person is?

Pretty sure this is just a smoke screen for homophobia.

 

I always thought it was really passive aggressive, like "hey I think you're a freak, but god wants me to be nice, so hey hate the sin not the sinner right?"

 

I've always seen this phrase as a copout. It is their attempt to stay in the middle when they have beliefs that say that LGBT people are sinful.

I also see it as passive aggressive, since it is pretty much attempting to nicely say that "you don't deserve the same rights as I do".

 

Love the sinner, hate the sin...

When I was religious, this was quite popular. Granted, same sex attractions I recognized are innate but I also recognized that you could restrain your desires. The church named it sin not for being gay but acting upon sexual desires. Besides, as many others say, there is so much more to an individual than their sexuality.

Granted, this is all BS to me now but I hate it when LGBT+ members cannot put themselves into the biggots' shoes. Bitching at them gets us nowhere fast.

 

I would say in general, people need to be held responsible for what they do so any disassociation between an offender and their crimes is just another method of cajoling people into not letting things change.

It is true, oppression is so ingrained that people just cant see passed their prejudices.

 

I like the theory, but it doesn't always work in practice. If by 'love the sinner, hate the sin' you mean that you can hate the sin without hating the sinner, that is pretty much the perfect response.
As in, 'I disagree with homosexuality, however, I do not hate gay people or want to restrict their rights.'
This means that while you do not like the fact that Terry is in love with Derek, you are still good friends with them both, and will vote 'yes' (or not at all) for any gay rights movements.
Because it is not your future that will be decided by this vote, but people you care about.

However, many people use this excuse as a reason to be homophobic. 'oh, I'm not a homophobe, I just think that they don't deserve their basic human right to marry and live without discrimination'

It has been suggested on countless occasions (always by people who have studied the bible in great depth) that the famous quote from Leviticus banning homosexuality has been mistranslated. Leviticus is mainly on the topic of property and the laws involving property. At the time, women were property, so by saying that a man should not lie with another man as he would a woman, the more accurate translation would be 'do not treat a man as you treat a woman.'

I'll say it a million times, as far as I am concerned you are allowed to disagree with homosexuality, but you are not allowed to disagree with human rights.
(If you do, then we cannot be friends)

Don't like gays? Fine, don't be one. Problem solved. Don't try to stop gay people from living normal lives with all the same rights you have.
Love the sinner, hate the sin?
Then don't punish the 'sinner'.
Don't do God's job, he knows what he's doing.

 

You hate that, when LGBT members cannot understand how bigots can think that way..? I find it pretty harsh to "hate" that, actually.

 

I find it that lots of people are ignorant of the other side too. People are so blinded by their prejudices because they were raised (brainwashed) to believe their parents' truth. They are unfortunate they can't expand their minds and embrace everyone. I've seen people sit down and talk with the bigots and ask them why they feel the way they do and it's led to positive results. If we keep calling them bigots and bringing them down making them even more defensive, we get nowhere. So yes, I hate it when there's no progress being made.

---------- Post added 13th Jul 2015 at 04:48 PM ----------

Moreover, this site does wonders for dealing with internalized homophobia. Most people are nice and want to listen to what you experience and why you've felt the way you have.

 

Thanks for elaborating. =) I was curious, as some people are so bigoted that trying to figure out what they mean is actually very difficult. Especially if one Leviticus thing does apply, but something two verses before it doesn't. =) Trying to make sense out of that can be a huge struggle.

That's why I was curious about your opinion in more detail, so thanks for explaining. =)