I have to ask.

Gonna quote thoughts I posted recently on another thread which may apply here.

Other than above I can add a little more for extra opinions. Settling for just a unions is saying we as a community are less just because we are different. It's no better than any other type of stereotypical & tradition based hate.

Pushing for equal rights or not you'd still very likely be treated the same way. There's quite a lot of people who still believe homosexuality is wrong, just because we are now more noticed does not make anyone hate you. They likely would have acted the same regardless of current LGBT advances in equality. We aren't demanding respect, we deserve respect just like any human being does.

 

Why the Civil Rights movement? Why feminism?
Why demand respect? Why demand equal rights? Why, because we deserve them, just as much as any minority out there. That's like saying people with red hair don't deserve respect, because there are so few of them.

Bringing issues such as marriage equality to the limelight has stirred up homophobia, but only an underlying homophobia that was already there.
I'm sorry that you're scared at school. Maybe you should talk to a teacher or counselor about it. Is it a specific person you're scared of?

 

You're overlooking one major thing...

That fear you have. It would still exist. Though it would be much worse, if other LGBT folks had not pushed so hard, because a lack of resistance tends to result in... well... ever wonder why a bully picks on who they do?

Same logic. It's easier to target those who "just accept the way things are", because the way things are is you being a punching bag.

Without that hard pushing, you'd be nothing more than an immoral, deviant, second rate citizen at best; a Hell-bound, unwanted, piece of garbage faggot at worst.

Harsh, but something to always be mindful of.

 

I don't think this is accurate at all. Pastors are members of religious groups and can still set whatever criteria they want for their version of marriage (for example having both people be practicing members of that religion, or not be previously married for Catholic weddings, etc...).

 

Here's an important financial aspect of it that doesn't get talked about often enough.

[YOUTUBE]Z42E9YWNQwA[/YOUTUBE]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z42E9YWNQwA

 

This entire conflict was not brought on by us. It was brought on by the government who denied us equality, and by the religious who sought to use their religion as a justification to discriminate against us using the power of the government.

We have existed since the first humans walked the African Savanna nearly 200,000 years ago. We have existed in every culture, and we have existed long before there was -any- religion, let alone any of these modern religions.

Heterosexuals do not have the right to deny us equality under the law, and neither do the religious have the right to force their false dogma down our throats using the government as their weapon.

For centuries in the Western World we have been executed, imprisoned, tortured, sterilized, and ostracized. Even in the cultures where our people were safe, those cultures were eventually colonized and the bigotry against us spread from one part of the world to another as native cultures were wiped out. They imprisoned us in Nazi concentration camps, and when the "Allies" came to liberate them, we were the only group that they sent from the camps to the prisons. We lived under this persecution until 1969 when we rebelled, it was not the first time that we had fought back, but the Stonewall Riots is what sparked our modern movement.

The religious right lies and claims that we started the culture war, but the reality is that they have been waging this war against us for centuries. We have just in modern times been able to find each other, organize, and fight back. The fear you experience was caused by them, not us. To not fight back is to accept the status quo, and what that means is that all that we have historically endured would continue.

Getting marriage equality was a step in the right direction. Marriage was important. It legitimizes our relationships in the eyes of the law and society as a whole. However, it is just a single step in the right direction. We have a long way to go, still. Over time the people who hate us and want to hurt us will become socially marginalized, as the culture war shifts in our favor.

Only when the culture changes will people like yourself be able to grow up and feel completely safe, because you will grow up in a world where you are viewed and embraced as an equal. You will not be viewed as an abomination, a deviant, a pervert, and even straight people would cringe at the word faggot.

I'm sorry that you're afraid, and that you are living in a hostile environment. However, giving into our enemies in favor of some illusionary form of safety is not the way forward.

 

Ok here's my thoughts here. There are several key issues here and I'll address them one at a time

1) firstly there is the matter of prejudice implicit. There was no reasonable cause for marriage to be denied except for bigotry. So not fighting it, is saying that such bigotry is ok. Claiming religious reasons is just an attempt at justifying bigotry.

2) relating to the first but worthy of seperate note. It would have been acceptable in first instance if a church wasn't forced to bless such a union, so long as legally it was recognised as equal to a straight couple marriage. Now within religious context this is more tricky. Not fighting this on a religious angle, my point of view on such is irrelevant.

3)one of the key issues in the UK at least was that a civil union did not provide the same level of rights etc as a marriage does. Ranging from legal status to financial rights etc. To all intents and purposes, a straight marriage was considered more prestigious, more right, more supportable than a gay couple.

 

Because marriage can have some benefits (ie. visitation rights) and also, it's a basic human right. Why should lgbt people be seen as second class citizens? Marriage is separate from religion and so there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to marry.

 

Marriage has certain legal rights and protections that "unions" do not. I've dreamed of getting married since I was a kid, most people have. A union sounds like a business partnership.

The rights thing? Because we all deserve the same rights! Remember that "inalienable" line in the Constitution? I should not have less rights just because I want to kiss boys. That's discrimination based on something that has to do with absolutely nothing with the kind of person I am. I really do have to question the character of people who have a problem with LGBT people.

 

Very well said. To this I would ask the OP to name three groups who's interests were advanced in a positive way by the act of laying down and being a doormat for the majority.

Beyond that, I would point out that the Christian conservatives who are unhappy about LGBT people gaining rights and who are spouting off about 'why can't they just accept a lesser status?' were themselves once the subject of pogroms and persecution. You'll note that there are no Christians being fed to lions on an ongoing basis in Europe or the Americas. There are no Christians being burned at the stake because they are the 'wrong kind' of Christian in these places either. We don't have various Christian groups fleeing Western Europe to the Americas to escape religious persecution anymore. But that wasn't always the case, and the irony of people who got where they are because they stood up and did something about their situation being upset because others are now doing it to them...is ironic.

The people who hate us because we're not straight wouldn't just magically stop if we just bowed down to them and begged to be allowed to exist. That has never worked for any group in all of human history.

Todd

 

Oh, another self-loathing gay... :rolle: Whatevah. :dry:

 

If marriage really was a totally religious thing, then why could my agnostic parents get married?

 

Wow another one of these threads huh :dry::rolle:

Here's some excerpts from THE UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS

Article 2.

*Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.
Article 6.

*Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

Article 7.

All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

Article 16.

(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.


Being a minority does not delegate unto LGBT persons the category of being sub-humans. In the eyes of the Law WE ARE ALL HUMANS, and therefor are and should be accorded the SAME RIGHTS as our as you said "majority straight" brothers and sisters.

We are not asking for different rights from our brothers and sisters. We are merely asking to be treated with the same respect and accorded the same rights as theirs. We are not asking to be exempt from criminals acts, killing, etc what we are simply asking for is for EQUALITY under the Law.

If we discriminate against LGBT because they are as you say a minority. Why not stop there? Why not discriminate against PWDs (persons with disabilities) since they are a minority as opposed to the rest of society. Let's further the discrimination by including redheads since they are again a minority. Let's sub-categorize their marriages into "Unions", because they "demand respect" from the majority (as you said). :rolle:

 

I don't want to be quick to blame him. He's obviously getting a hard time from his society because of the recent rulings. And Texas, of all places. These kids are copying exactly what their parents are spewing. A hoard of ignoramuses, how is this possible? It's like they've just shunned away from questioning anything. Do your parents/guardians know you're gay?

 

pastors should not have the ability to not marry same-sex couples, churches recieve tax relief from the govt, any establishment/business that gets govt relief has to abide by the govt, if they want to not marry same-sex couples then they should pay fucking taxes just like everyone else. as for the rest your argument is so flawed im not even going to get into it

---------- Post added 9th Aug 2015 at 06:40 PM ----------

and if we let business owners (and dont evven try to say churches arent businesses) discriminate and refuse service based on their views then ppl would have the same "freedom" to refuse service to black ppl