1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Do you think addiction is a disease?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by DrinkBudweiser, Aug 31, 2015.

  1. DrinkBudweiser

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2014
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Indiana
    Gender:
    Female
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Went to my alcohol intervention class this morning, (no, I don't have a problem - I was just assessed a DUI and this is part of the penalty) our usual instructor is on vacation so we had an addiction counselor instead.

    She made the statement of addiction being a disease.
    I couldn't help but to be OUTRAGED by this. I'm aware that the National Institute of Drug Abuse considers addiction a "brain disease" but I refuse to call it a disease. I'm a bit of a savage motherfucker when it comes to shit like this... I have no tolerance for stupidity or sympathy for those who have made the choice to stick a needle in their arm (or whatever their case may be) and now suffer poor life quality.

    You know what a disease is? Leukemia, cancer, parkinsons, alzheimers, tumors, crohns - I can continue this list all night. Somewhere in this world right now, there is a 5 year old child being told that they have 2 weeks to live because they have an inoperable tumor. That is a fucking disease. A child who didn't decide they wanted a tumor. But, here we have people CHOOSING to do drugs - that's a disease? No, that's a choice. Natural selection at its very, very finest.

    Do people who choose this path deserve treatment and help? Absolutely, but to call it a disease just down-right pisses me the hell off. You aren't born with the natural desire to do heroin. That is your CHOICE. I mean, who the hell sees someone so messed up and acting like a strung-out idiot has the mindset of, "yeah let me try that!" - That isn't a disease, that is an idiotic fucking choice.

    Opinions?
     
  2. kyoujin

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2015
    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Searching...
    It is not a disease. It is a weakness.
     
  3. dano218

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    26
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Well in all fairness and as i have seen on death certificates medical professionals do claim alcoholism and drug abuse as a disease. Do you people have the choice to abuse alcohol or drug yes they do but when it gets the point of not being able to get through the day without smoking pot or having a few drinks I would claim them as diseases. Also considering the fact that drug abuse and alcoholism can be related to genetics and passed down from generation to generation i would consider it a disease just like cancer. Cancer can be genetic also so i have no problem putting them in the same category as diseases. Yes drinking alcohol can be more of a choice than cancer but there are also ways people can decrease their changes of getting cancer by not smoking or using sunscreen. So with that said i am perfectly find labeling alcoholism and drug abuse as a disease having seen it myself and how it also runs in families. It does not justify anything but i think in many cases it should be considered a disease that news to be treated just like cancer need to treated.

    Also A person can die of alcoholism just as much as a person that die of a incurable cancer. They both can kill people. I guess in some cases you can label alcoholism more as a genetic condition than a disease. I have the genetic inhibition to drink but that is why I am even more careful on how much alcohol I consume so i don't get addicted.
     
    #3 dano218, Aug 31, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2015
  4. AwesomGaytheist

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Messages:
    6,909
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender:
    Genderqueer
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Addiction is an umbrella term because it really is a physical and mental disease. The physical aspect of it is called "Chemical dependency," where depending on how far gone you are, you get the shakes if you don't have a drink, or in the more extreme cases of alcoholism/drug abuse, coma or death can occur. The mental disorder involves the inhibitions being lowered to where they will do literally anything to get their fix, and their extreme resistance to the mere idea of going to treatment. Manipulation, stealing, killing, the likes. It has to do with the way a person's brain is wired and the effect that their drug of choice, be it alcohol, heroin, even sex and gambling, has on their brain.

    I'd suggest doing a little research, or even watching an episode or two of "Intervention" before you pass judgement. Your last paragraph sounds quite ignorant to people who are either recovering addicts or who have a loved one who's an addict. It truly is a disease when the person either blocks out, or just doesn't care anymore about the effect that their addiction (in my case, my grandmother's alcoholism) has on them and those around them. It is a disease that affects the entire family, as children of addicts tend to have trust issues later on down the road, plus the fact that most addicts couldn't afford to be an addict if left to their own devices. They rely on their family/friends to bail them out of bad situations, which puts the family members between a rock and a hard place.

    As for whether or not someone has a problem, I'd suggest taking a look at this: https://ncadd.org/learn-about-alcohol/alcohol-abuse-self-test

    Anyhoo, by your logic, emphysema, COPD, and lung cancer aren't diseases because it was a person's choice to smoke cigarettes. Diabetes isn't a disease because you chose to drink a ton of pop.
     
    #4 AwesomGaytheist, Aug 31, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2015
  5. DrinkBudweiser

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2014
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Indiana
    Gender:
    Female
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I'll agree to disagree here, for the sake of argument. In my eyes, it is still a choice to develop an addiction. If we're looking up disease by definition, you're way more politically correct than I am. I will just always find that calling a choice a disease is a slap in the face to someone with leukemia who would give anything in the world for your healthy organs and body.

    I'd say that spending 24+ hours in an actual alcohol, drugs and narcotics intervention program is better research than watching a TV show, I think I've gained the right to pass judgement. I do think listening to the stories of the people I've met is sad, but if you choose to make such a poor, poor decision... The consequences are deathly.

    As far as feeling bad for family members, absolutely. I can't imagine having to deal with that and with that being said, I'm sorry to hear about your grandmother. I understand that drugs, narcotics and alcohol destroys your brain chemistry and ruins your life - still, it's a choice that you have chosen to make.

    Alcoholism can be genetic. After seeing the struggle that others in your family have faced, you still have a choice. There are diseases where you aren't given ANY kind of choice - as far as human intelligence is aware of anyway.

    Those tests don't determine anything. By that logic; the test I took today in class would label me as an alcoholic with a problem because I've drank alcohol one night and not remembered everything the next morning at least once in my life. I'm sure there are millions of people in this world, this site included, who couldn't remember everything they did while intoxicated who do not have alcohol addiction / problem.

    Seems like a bit of an extreme to label someone who has done such at least once in their life as an alcoholic, yes?

    If you do something to cause yourself the diease, ie: smoking cigarettes and developing lung cancer - I have no remorse because that is the path you chose. Is it sad? Of course. However, you made that CHOICE.

    Lung cancer, COPD, emphysema and diabetes aren't always a choice. They can be, but they aren't always. Doing drugs is a choice 100%.
     
  6. rudysteiner

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2015
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Liverpool, UK
    I don't mean to start an argument, but I'd say smoking and drinking a shit ton of sugary drinks/eating unhealthy foods act as catalysts to someone having a disease.

    --

    The word disease roughly means disorder of structure/order and can therefore is a very vague term which can be used in almost any context you can think of. I don't really think that people will start drinking/doing heroin/whatever, with the intent to get addicted. I think that's a bit harsh, OP, but I can see where you're coming from.
     
  7. ebda30

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Messages:
    198
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    CA
    Gender:
    Genderqueer
    Out Status:
    A few people
    I get irritated seeing my family members calling their heroine addictions a disease. They use it as a cop out and an excuse to relapse over, and over again. They are diseased and can't help it, thru say. Thru never dreamed that they would be going thru this. Really? You had no idea shooting up heroine was going to lead you to this point? Growing up where we did that isa flat out lie, they knew and chose anyway.

    Addiction CAN be hereditary tho.

    I actually very much had a simular opinion to gaytheist...until addiction destroyrd our families, I had nieces and nephews born addicted and friends die from the choices they made. When you watch an older sibling destroy their life over drugs and think hey! I think I want to do heroine too, and become extremely addicted, and it trickles down the family. Its not a disease in the same sense as other diseases, its a life choice brought on by ignorance, self worth issues and mental health problems. It does destroy like a disease, perk to it is when the addict has made the choice to recover, they can do so, with an extremely high success rate (success based on the addicts desire and ability to seek help and take necssaey steps, its not an easy process). Too bad all diseases don't disappear when you are tired of them, huh?
     
    #7 ebda30, Aug 31, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2015
  8. the haunted

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    789
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    United States
    An addiction is more of a condition instead of a disease. I think diseases (genetic or otherwise) can make you more prone to addiction, but that doesn't make the addiction a disease. I agree that addiction to hard drugs (or anything else) isn't a disease. It's a condition caused by the drugs and lack of good judgement.
     
  9. dano218

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    26
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Of course drinking alcohol or doing drugs is a choice and people have to accept the consequences of that choice but when you look at what causes alcoholism and drug abuse like genetics, depression, mental illness in some cases i have no problem considering them diseases that need the proper treatment. Whether it is a choice or not i have too big of a heart fault someone for it and just see that as someone who needs the proper treatment, counseling, and even medication. A person's environment can also cause addiction too and we need to take that in account and find a positive outlet for that person. I think we really need to walk in someone's shoes before we judge their addictions or diseases. Medical doctors have also claimed alcoholism as a disease on death certificates so it can be considered a disease.
     
  10. ThatGuyT

    ThatGuyT Guest

    Genetics definitely play a role as to how prone a person is to becoming an addict to a substance. While this probably can't really be classified as a disease it certainly puts some people at a dissadvantage because they are just more likely to get addicted to something. I remember my english teacher trlling our class that he will never offer someone he invites to his home an alcoholic beverage because one never know if a person is an addictive type. And this is also the reason why I stay away from alcohol and drugs. My dad is an alcoholic and my granddad on my mothers side was an alcoholic for many many years. So there is a big chance for me to have a genetic predisposition to becomming an addict. To be honest I don't think calling it disease is right, but saying that people who are alcoholics are just idiots who made wrong choices would also not be right. I think that most of them made wrong choices but were also unlucky enough to be an addictive kind of person.
     
    #10 ThatGuyT, Aug 31, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2015
  11. Blue787Bunny

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2015
    Messages:
    273
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Missouri
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    I have read a the comments posted here and I would agree to some and disagree to some as well.

    In saying that addiction can be the result of two things. Yes poor lifestyle choices can lead to addiction (substance such as alcohol, drugs; gambling, etc). However there are also addictions which are the result of preexisting and/or underlying mental disorders, illnesses that predisposes one to addiction. i say predisposing because it does not happen to all. Such cases include Major Depressive Disorder, Bipolar Disorder (an umbrella term for the different types such as Type I, Type II, Early-Onset, Not Otherwise Specified), previous history of abuse such as Sexual Abuse or some form of other psychological trauma.

    There is an inherent flaw to the concept that making poor lifestyle choices which eventually lead to disease invalidates it as a disease. Because if we are to strictly implement this, then there are a plethora of illnesses which would be declassified as diseases...

    * Poor eating habits leading to obesity. Which in turn leads to Hypercholesterolemia, Hypertension, Diabetes Type II, various Cardiac problems (Myocardial Infarctions, Cardiovascular Accidents, etc).

    * Smoking which leads to Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease--- Chronic Bronchitis and/or Emphysema. Lung Cancer, etc.

    * Drinking Excessive Amounts of Alcohol which leads to Fatty Liver Changes, Cirrhosis of the Liver, Liver Cancer.

    * Etc.

    Then if we are to declassify lifestyle diseases we can call all of the above as "condition" due to poor choices.
     
    #11 Blue787Bunny, Aug 31, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2015
  12. DanDan

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    344
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Louisiana
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Well whatever it is, alcohol addiction is still not a good thing.
     
  13. ebda30

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Messages:
    198
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    CA
    Gender:
    Genderqueer
    Out Status:
    A few people
    <3
     
  14. CyanChachki

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2014
    Messages:
    1,397
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    British Columbia
    It's not a disease. A disease is a non physical injury that has a high risk at being fatal. A disease is not directly self inflicted, however, disease can be caused by things taken in such as cancer or liver failure, but with that being said, it's not a disease because the addiction of choice is not something that possesses the unhealthy cells to cause disease, it possesses unhealthy cells that ruin your body which results in disease. Addictions are 100% curable, disease is not. At best, we all have a 50% chance at surviving a disease.
     
  15. Chip

    Board Member Admin Team Advisor Full Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    16,551
    Likes Received:
    4,750
    Location:
    northern CA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Folks, sorry, but really, based on any of the voluminous research, clinical data, or empirical experience of those who work with these populations, it isn't even controversial saying that addiction is a disease.

    The idea that it's a choice or a weakness and that anyone can simply choose not to drink is not supported by what current understanding of brain biochemistry or psychology.

    The issue is complex and nuanced, and for those who aren't either willing to dive into the research, or willing to recognize that their viewpoint may be clouded by judgment or ignorance... I don't have much to say other than perhaps at some point you'll have an experience that will help you better understand.

    There's voluminous data from hundreds of credible studies out there supporting this idea. The best compilation of sources I've run into can be found in the appendix of Gabor Maté, MD's book "In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts." The citations come from nearly every major medical journal, and dozens of researchers. This isn't really convtroversial. Further support for this can be found in "Addiction as an Attachment Disorder" by Philip Flores, Ph.D.

    What we know is that addiction (and, interestingly, it appears, a number of other conditions, including depression, anxiety, and OCD) originate from a deficit in the development of neurotransmitter pathways in the brain. This happens in the first two years of life, and the particular neurotransmitter pathway(s) affected correlate with the types of drugs (alcohol, stimulants, opioids, etc) a given person is likely to be at risk of abusing.

    The developmental deficit is caused, at least in major part, by a bonding failure between parent and child that is mediated by stress, environmental stability, and the parent's emotional availability. Interestingly, these patterns appear to imprint and be passed on generationally, giving the impression that they are genetic; but genetics, though they appear to play a role, are not the most reliable predictor.

    So what happens is, the people with these deficits essentially never quite feel "normal." If they are never exposed to alcohol or drugs, then they will not become addicted to them. So in that way, choice plays a role here. But teens and even young adults are notorious for being susceptible to peer pressure and for making bad decisions... and for someone with this deficit, it may take only one drink, one Vicodin, one Ritalin to turn on the addictive behavior, because for the person with the deficit, the drug actually makes them feel normal... at least until they start abusing it. Unfortunately, for those with the deficit, a single use can very rapidly escalate to addiction, and it is extremely difficult to simply not use; it would be akin to saying "Don't drink water ever again." You get dehydrated enough and no matter what, you're going to find water and drink it. For the person with the neural deficit who is struggling with addiction... the situation is similar.

    All of the above isn't to say that drugs are safe for people without the neurotransmitter deficit; anyone can develop a physical addiction to, say, meth or opiates, or even alcohol when exposed long enough. But for those without the risk factor, the chance of recovery and maintaining sobriety after addiction is far, far greater. (This data is backed up by about 40 years of research by the VA looking at soldiers coming back from Vietnam; a large percentage were addicted to heroin on return from Vietnam, but after 2 years of treatment, the relapse rate was about 20% of what it should have been, and this is because the addiction was situational and a coping strategy to temporary stress, rather than driven by the neurotransmitter deficit.)

    So... yes, it is a disease. Now, there's nuance here because someone has to be interested in getting sober to have a chance at sobriety. Someone who isn't the least bit interested is unlikely to stay sober. So that can look like willpower or choice. But if that someone has the neural deficit... it's going to take willpower and constant support. This is where AA and therapy come in. Over time, we can repattern the deficient neurotransmitter pathways and dramatically reduce the risk of relapse, but, particularly for people past their early 20s, it can take a much longer time to accomplish this, and during that time, the person will be at extreme risk of relapse because their decision centers are essentially hijacked by the drugs, and they simply don't have the impulse control and judgment they need to stay sober... which, again, is why peer support, AA, therapy, and other tools are helpful.

    The addiction risk tests do provide some guidance toward risk factors, and help to determine whether use is likely out of, or getting out of control. But they aren't good predictors of whether there's actual abuse and addiction.

    I think if you take the time to read some of Gabor's work, or watch one of his many videos, you get a clearer picture of this complicated and nuanced situation. People struggling with addiction need our compassion and empathy. The last thing they need is to be told that they could simply make better choices, or have stronger willpower, or "just get over it." While I've been fortunate to never have a chemical dependency myself, I've worked with many who have, and I guarantee you that very, very few of them are simply lacking in judgment or willpower.
     
  16. Pret Allez

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    6,785
    Likes Received:
    67
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Addiction is clearly a disease. I mean, it's defined as a disease.
     
  17. Tightrope

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2013
    Messages:
    5,415
    Likes Received:
    387
    Location:
    USA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I don't think it's a disease. It's a behavior for which there is a propensity. It runs in families. It also tends to be more prevalent in some populations and less in others.

    At that point, are other addictions diseases as well? If so, which ones?

    The only thing I've ever heard is that two addictions - food and sex - are tough to consider addictions because they are so functional and necessary. It then becomes a question of how much is too much.

    As for classifying it as a disease or a mental health issue, that enables health insurers to cover the costs of detox and inpatient or outpatient programs for alcoholism, substance abuse, and other addictions.

    Since I've seen people back away from alcohol and nicotine voluntarily and without a support group, simply based on a personal decision, I have a little bit of trouble thinking of addiction as a disease. I even look at hypertension the same way. When does heart disease start? To me, it's when there has been an infarction, an unusual blockage, or an event like that as opposed to someone just being hypertensive.
     
    #17 Tightrope, Aug 31, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2015
  18. Chip

    Board Member Admin Team Advisor Full Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    16,551
    Likes Received:
    4,750
    Location:
    northern CA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I take it you didn't bother to read what I wrote as it directly addresses all of the arguments you make.
     
  19. Austin

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,172
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    We all need to agree on a definition of "disease" first....
     
  20. kageshiro

    kageshiro Guest

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2012
    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    in your soul
    I think it depends on the addiction and the severity.. if you have someone suffering from withdrawl, their symptoms are as real as anything you see with any other physical or mental disease. The circumstances of how the addiction started for me are irrelevant if someone is making a clear effort to get help and give up their habits, I can forgive them. On the otherhand, if that person willingly resigns themselves to their addiction, then that is their choice, and I do see it as a choice, and a weakness. As long as they're aware of the consequences and willing to accept them, I don't think I'd try to stop them.