My thoughts on Social Justice and Feminism

Okay so I've noticed talks about social justice and feminism are topics that get very heated and inflammatory and when I used to talk about Christianity I had similar experiences, and I remember once on Facebook I made what I call an "Honest" post where I just lay my thoughts out on the table and it helped a lot with opening discussion as opposed to argumentation, so I'm going to try and see if that works here.

Let me start by saying I've never been someone who's been in a strong position to be a strong activist about anything. Beyond throwing around my 2 cents online, I haven't been able to contribute much to social or political issues, which mostly just drives me to try and be as clear and concise as I possibly can be when I discuss these issues. Sometimes I do have my lazy moments where I slap things together, but I do try to avoid that.


Now my experience is with two types of feminism. mainstream feminism and online feminism.

Mainstream feminism is mostly ( from what I've personally experienced ) celebrities throwing around the word like they know what it means, but not really contributing much to the movement, and even continuing to indulge in the same behaviors and attitudes that hold women back. A good example is Beyonce. She calls herself a feminism and then very obviously uses sex appeal to sell records. To me, personally, I see that as a contridiction. It's one thing to be proud of your sexuality ( I'm not opposed to that ) but sex being used as a tool to demean women and sell products is one of feminism's big issues and here is Beyonce perpetuating that problem by indulging and encouraging that exact behavior. To me that appears as "I'm feminism on the surface, but really I don't care" maybe I'm wrong, but in my worldview that's just the way it appears to me.

Online Feminism is a whole other kind of thing. Online feminism is mostly this radical group that attacks every single mundane topic they can find. Just to remind you this is all from my personal perspective. Everytime I see something from online feminism it's this little knit-pick issues they are blowing up into the biggest deal in the world, and in the process are demeaning the very group they are claiming to stand up for. What I mean by this is that my interpretation of a lot of the things online feminism claims paints women as children who need to be catered to because they are incapable of handling adult situations. Personally, I don't see women that way. I see women as just as capable as men, and that's why I have so much trouble with the online feminism. Women and men should be held to the same standard, and online feminism doesn't seem to be interested in that.

A good example of what I'm talking about is how I see the issue of Drunk sex = rape.

Let me start by saying if a person is so drunk they cannot speak, let alone consent, or is passed out to me that is in fact rape.

My issue comes with general intoxication. What I mean is the point where your inhibitions are lowered, but you are still able to react and respond to situations unfolding around you.

Online feminism wants to drive home this idea that if a girl is drunk and you have sex with her that's rape, but if you flip the situation and ask what about if a girl has sex with a drunk guy they don't want to address that topic ( from my experience) they don't want to talk about the implications there. More so they want it to still be rape on the male's part if both parties are drunk.

My problem with this is this idea that if the guy and girl are both drunk than the responsibility should be on both of them, or neither of them. The fact they want to place the responsiblity on the men alone shows that they don't see men and women as equals. The argument only makes sense if their claim is that men are more capable of handling alcohol than women, and as such are more inclined to carry the burden of responsiblity while inebriated.

Again this is all my subjective opinion. I'm not speaking for anyone else, just myself.

Now onward to Social Justice.

Now I see two different kinds of Social Justice.

I call them Social Justice Activists and Social Justice Warriors.

A Social Justice Activist is someone who belives in these concepts like privellege and trigger warnings, but understand that not everyone will agree with them, and are open to the idea of discourse and conversation. They are firmly for their cause and willing to defend it, but aren't going to shut someone out of the conversation for the great crime of not believing like they do.

Now a Social Justice warrior is someone who's taken the cause to fundamentalist level. They get very dangerous and very exteme. I've personally seen them do things like Doxxing, death threats, bomb threats, and currently I encountered a story about a group of SJW's actively defending a pedophile to further their own personal agenda.


I'm sorry if this is a mess. I'm trying to walk a tightline here and not offend anyone, while also explaining myself. If I messed up I sincerely apologize. I'm just trying to explain my experience from my worldview, and hopefully open up the possiblity of just having a rational discourse about this without the need for heated words

 

Answer: Yes, these are sorta terms I use personally which is why I kinda tried to explain what each one is to me.

You'll have to explain marxist feminism to me. I've never heard of it.

Liberal Feminism sounds an awful lot like this brand of online feminism I'm most familiar with.

---------- Post added 6th Sep 2015 at 11:08 PM ----------

Hey don't dig the trenches just yet. I tried really hard to make the distinction that I'm only speaking to myself and my personal experience and to keep things civil.

I know this can be done. I've pulled this off in an atheism vs. Christian conversation, and if it can be done there it can be done anywhere.

 

Capitalism will ultimately self-destruct so if that were the case the answer would be to just kick back and wait it out.

 

How do you do it in a cooler way? *is quite curious*

 

I'd like to point out something about the definition argument.

I really hate when people point to the definition of the word feminism for two reasons. The first being that what a word is supposed to mean, and what it winds up meaning in practice are two different things. Second I've met so many feminists who will use that argument than turn around later and make a statement like "You're thinking about ____ in terms of it's dictionary definition, but that's not what it really means you have to understand 'insert bs here'" and so to me I've really grown to hate the argument via definition.

I know there are good and sane feminists out there, but like I said I am only speaking to my own personal experiences. I haven't really encountered any. When I made the distinction between Social Justice Warriors and Social Justice Activists I made that distinction because I met someone who labeled themself a Social Justice Activist and we had a long and pleasant conversation about the subject, and it was done civilly and in the end we were actually on quite friendly terms ( I can't remember their name anymore, but they were on the news at one point pushing for trigger warnings to be included in university books ).

My thought on makeup ( one that no one under the banner of feminism or Social Justice cares about that I'm aware of ) is that women should be able to do what they want in regards to makeup, and that men should stop being demonized, harassed, and hated for daring to use makeup themselves.

I feel like instead of getting rid of the 'evil' makeup why don't we encourage men to try it out more and women to not feel like they have to? Makeup ( when used properly ) does make your better features come out, and that's not really a bad thing.

 

Well I withdraw myself generally from labeling the people on this forum.

I find a lot of you I have a hard time distinguishing whether I consider you more of a feminist or a Social Justice Activist.

---------- Post added 7th Sep 2015 at 07:57 PM ----------

That reminds me a lot of Anita Sarkeesian, that's how I view her for the most part. I also see her as someone who uses emotionally manipulative tactics for financial gain, but I try to avoid too much discussion about her because a lot of people are very passionate about her existence.

I think I give them the impression I'm entirely opposed to the ideas she presents, but that's not really the case. I'm more than happy to have a discussion about them, but most of the time you can't because she disables all her comments and her followers have an "All or nothing" mentality which doesn't allow them to budge on anything or even try to understand the other side of the argument.

 

I think some people have trouble seeing irony when it's right in front of them.

 

I consider myself an egalitarian as well.

Yeah if you don't feel like doing the makeup, bra, and other kinda stuff good for you. It's a free country, do what ya want. I'm 100% for that, as long as you aren't trying to guilt or shame other people into doing it along side you.

I agree it is kinda messed up how girls can wear typically male clothes and most people don't think twice about it, but if a guy wears feminine clothing they're immediately looked down upon and demeaned.

I've never been a fan of double standards, and I've seen them go both ways, but I've noticed feminism only wants to tackle the double standards that are against women, they don't seem to mind holding onto the beneficial ones.