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LGBT: what do you think of Muslims going to Europe?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Hgyi, Sep 20, 2015.

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  1. Hgyi

    Hgyi Guest

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    The lslamic population is expected to grow in Europe due to immigration, high birthrate and converting. Of course, europe has been a very accepting place for gays and lesbians got the past decade... But do you think this may change? How do you think this may affect the lgbt community?

    Give your honest opinions plz.. Thanks!
     
  2. Andrew99

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    I think if there allowing them to immigrate they can have there own beliefs but they should not be aloud to discriminate against anyone really. I could see Russia becoming completely Muslim in 20 to 30 years.
     
  3. I'm not a European, but I have relatives that are (British and French). My relatives are hopeful that they'll assimilate, accepting LGBT in the process.

    Although, I have researched this topic many times. Muslims in Europe often have a harder time assimilating in Europe as opposed to Canadian and U.S Muslims. Maybe it'll hurt LGBT in a way, but you have to factor in stuff like how devout they are as well. I know some Muslim people, both devout and not devout, who supports LGBT (Yes, assimilation plays a significant role as well). Besides, West and North Europe is very accepting already. I doubt Europe will have a setback in LGBT acceptance.

    Lack of assimilation of European Muslims is often due to the increasingly islamophobic governments in Europe, especially with laws like Burqa/Niqab bans. Think about it, most Muslims that have joined ISIS are from Europe. Yes, more Muslims reside in Europe than NA, but the lack of consistence of ISIS recruits from both continents tend to make me wonder.

    (READ THIS ONE, ESPECIALLY!)
    Islamic, yet integrated | The Economist

    The Best Place in the World to be a Muslim: America or Europe?

    Muslim? Thinking of immigration? Go West, skip Europe | i24news - See beyond
     
  4. Yosia

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    Well, seeing as Islam is a peaceful religion, I can't imagine them starting wars over LGBT+ issues.

    I'm all for people Immigrating (legally). If you want to make your own life better then go for it!
     
  5. Manitoban

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    Well I think they should be allowed to enter and aided though I think the focus should be on the root systemic problem in the region(hard I know) and hopefully they can stay at home. But absolutely we should help those in need.

    That said from a purely selfish point of view I think its going to be overall negative to the LGBT community. Particularly in Germany, Italy, Austria etc... where they haven't gotten marriage rights yet. (once something is in place its harder to repeal likely) The Muslim population is statistically not supportive of LGBT rights. As they start becoming citizens they will add to no vote. To marriage, non discrimination and gender rights. New citizens often have slightly higher voting rates and politicians will go after their votes and therefore adhere to their concerns.

    An article showing this: Muslims in Britain have zero tolerance of homosexuality, says poll | UK news | The Guardian

    (frankly saying France is better cause 35% support are okay with it matters very little in the broader context. Probably poor selection in the British study really)

    So yes bring them in they need help and we should offer it. But since we are helping them they don't turn around and demand change. They should absolutely have their religions and cultures respected. Just as long as they respect that some people have different feelings. It can absolutely work if people are will to co-exist despite difference. And yes despite my selfish tanget bring them in. I'm willing to risk a slowdown in progressive change if people can find refuge.
     
  6. Invidia

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    The very title of this thread rings of Islamophobia. 'What do you think of dem Muslims comin' over here?'

    I think any potential setback a minor inflow of conservative values might bring into European society will not be able to significantly change society as a whole.

    Integration is key. Not in the sense of "Don't wear hijabs". But in the sense of, our values here are more liberal etc., and you have to respect that. Often respect isn't needed, even. Immigrants often take on the values of the society they're in. But when it is needed, it has to be respected.
     
  7. imnotreallysure

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    There is no such thing as 'Sharia police controlled areas' in England. Stop talking shit.

    Interestingly enough though, we can ask this same question but replace 'Muslims' with 'Eastern Europeans' who tend to be xenophobic, homophobic, racist and very traditional - and are probably an equal threat to LGBT individuals in Western Europe (if you believe such a threat exists in the first place). Certainly, as far as many people here are concerned, there is no distinction between immigration from Pakistan and Bulgaria - they're all bad and shouldn't be here.

    I think the real threat in Europe over the coming years will be far-right extremism as a naive and misguided backlash against non-European immigration. I feel more concerned about the rise of neo-Nazism than I do Islam. Just look at Hungary and the rise of antisemitism and the election of a far-right lunatic.
     
    #7 imnotreallysure, Sep 21, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2015
  8. GayBoyBG

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    #8 GayBoyBG, Sep 21, 2015
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  9. imnotreallysure

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    I'm not denying those things have happened - but 1) they're not common, and it's a lot more likely that a Muslim will be harassed in the UK by a white person than vice versa, and 2) it's no different to the neo-Nazis of the 1980s who went around physically attacking and even murdering LGBT individuals and ethnic minorities - except that was a hell of a lot more common.

    Like I said, far-right extremists are a much bigger threat than Islamic extremists.
     
    #9 imnotreallysure, Sep 21, 2015
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  10. GayBoyBG

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    Either way, I already stated my opinion. I think I'm allowed that.
    I don't see way an argument should arise and my country and Pakistan should also be involved the minute I say something that's against the opinion of the majority.
     
    #10 GayBoyBG, Sep 21, 2015
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  11. imnotreallysure

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    Everyone is entitled to an opinion - but be prepared for others to challenge you if they feel you're posting inaccurate nonsense. That's what happens when you make a public post on an internet forum.
     
  12. gravechild

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    Not to mention how many Europeans *are* Muslim (looking at you, Albania, Bosnia, Kosovo, Russia). You could argue there was more religious equality under Muslim rule, too, in Spain, Portugal, Sicily.
     
  13. Kaiser

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    The Ottoman Empire didn't really disappear, they just sent Ottoman agents under ground to operate in formerly held territories of the Caliphate. Soon, we shall see the return of the sick man of Europe, only this time, they're the doctors.

    On a serious note, ask this question -- but replace 'Muslim' with 'L/G/B/T/+'.
     
  14. Invidia

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    Haha, good one, Kaiser! :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

    @imnotreallysure Yes, far-right extremism is indeed a far worse threat in my eyes than Muslim immigration. The old saying "The enemy is within" reverberates in my head... And also, I would say that the neo-Nazies come second to their more moderate allies. Front National in France, UKIP in the UK, etc. I think they have a greater chance of actually getting enough political power to do serious damage to people's lives and to our societies on a massive scale. That said, e.g. Golden Dawn in Greece have already committed atrocities. My point is: if Golden Dawn, for example, would put on some suits and mind their tongues, they would likely be able to do even more damage than they are.
    I am seeing this in Sweden, for example. We had a Nazi party, The Swedes' Party with some followers here. But they were thugs to a large extent, fighting with militant communists etc. in the streets, and beating up immigrants. They kind of died down now, and would have had no chance at the top. Then we have the Sweden Democrats, who are not Nazis, but extremely anti-immigration and nationalists. A lot of the idiots, even the ones in suits, are full of shit and just blurt out random threats like "You better watch yourself now" to immigrants on Twitter, but they have their trump card: the chairman of the party, Jimmie Åkesson. His tongue is smooth and he lulls people into believing his overt xenophobia is simply the only logical solution to a problem.
    I believe these people are an even greater threat than the meatheads in the streets, because they can claim greater democratic authority as their basis for attacking those who they perceive as different.
     
  15. kem

    kem
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    I feel uneasy about this situation. Not because of the refugees, I welcome them, but because of potential tension between them and conservative nuts.
    Just today, I reported a video on Facebook of parents teaching their 2-year-old child to punch a monkey plush toy, calling it a 'refugee'.

    I think we should invest more on proper instructors for refugees. In our case, people who speak their language as well as Finnish could volunteer to instruct the refugees on Finnish customs, values and basic Finnish words. As well as help with any day-to-day activities.
    There should be more places of worship for Muslims.
     
    #15 kem, Sep 21, 2015
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  16. Invidia

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    Indeed, integration should be improved.

    And there should be more mosques, yes. In my neighboring town, the biggest in the county, there is not one permanent mosque, and they've been trying to have one forever. They're not even asking for one of those beautiful buildings with the rounded tops or anything like that; they're just asking for a place to be. They've had to move around for a long time.
     
    #16 Invidia, Sep 21, 2015
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  17. imnotreallysure

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    #17 imnotreallysure, Sep 21, 2015
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  18. Manitoban

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    I honestly think as long as everyone understands we have differences and is fine with it, like Canadas multicultural policy attempts at the extra diversity they will bring will be good for Europe.

    ---------- Post added 21st Sep 2015 at 03:44 PM ----------

    And of course good integration policies and education by the governments respective immigration officials is key.
     
  19. I don't know what is it about Europe, but Muslims integrate quite well in the U.S....
     
  20. Perseus

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    I thought that even if all the refugees from Syria were muslims and they all came to Europe, the European Muslim population would only rise by 1%... from 4% to 5%... that's a tiny number.

    (reference: The European Refugee Crisis and Syria Explained - YouTube, check it out!)
    https://youtu.be/RvOnXh3NN9w
     
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