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Nature vs. Nurture, where do you stand?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by tourettesqueen, Oct 4, 2015.

  1. tourettesqueen

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    I personally believe that psychopaths are born, not made. I believe this because of the recent discovery of brain abnormalities in those with antisocial personality disorder.

    What do you think, and why?
     
  2. SonicBoom

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    Both for psychopath.
     
    #2 SonicBoom, Oct 4, 2015
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  3. Serperior

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    Both for psychopaths
     
  4. Jalo

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    Psychos can really be either way, born with it, or made.
     
  5. Skaros

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    Nature and Nurture actually equally play a role in how someone's personality develops. There's genes that can make people more likely to be a certain way, but nurture basically acts as the final decider.

    Though of course, there's certain things that aren't affected by nurture (like sexual orientation and some mental illnesses)

    Psychopaths, I think, are definitely a result of a mix of nature and nurture, but nurture obviously plays a major role.
     
    #5 Skaros, Oct 4, 2015
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  6. ThatBorussenGuy

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    Psychopaths can be affected by both, but as a whole, it depends on the individual person.
     
  7. Acanthophis

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    Both, or one, or another. Brain is too complex to be put into black and white.
     
  8. Invidia

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    For psychopaths, both.

    For most people in general, I believe again both, but mostly nurture.
     
  9. Daydreamer1

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    For sociopaths/psychopaths, both.
     
  10. Austin

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    I'm gonna go with what the current research in psychology says: psychopathy is in part due to genetic predisposition. However, experiences with the environment can influence this disposition and help influence whether or not someone becomes a psychopath.

    I mean, it's not really a debate or a matter of opinion. This is what the current research suggests...
     
    #10 Austin, Oct 4, 2015
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  11. Charon

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    They're born, but it takes them awhile to discover, and devolop their psychopathy.
     
  12. Kaiser

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    It depends.

    You talking about a clinical psychopath or a Hollywood one? Because each of those, aside from being a clusterfuck of misinformation, presents a different answer.
     
  13. Vesta

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    In my opinion, both. While there are people who are born with brain abnormalities, an upbringing where someone has suffered neglect, has little to no ability to attach to anyone, an abusive past and much more can be also be causes that were not created from birth. However I also think that there isn't an answer that's entirely 100% correct either since a lot of mental issues and abnormalities are determined by deviance in the norm of society.
     
  14. tourettesqueen

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    Clinical
     
  15. Yosia

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    Your brain is no where near fully developed when you are born, so if you so pleased, you could probably reshape the whole of a child's brain if you attempted to do so from birth. Therefore I am on the nurture side.
     
  16. Kaiser

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    Most people mistake 'sociopath' and 'psychopath', though it is understandable. The two overlap each other at times -- disregard for authority, inability to form solid emotional connections, etc -- but they're different, primarily in the execution of expression.

    A sociopath, according to some, is the result of nurture. You become socially distorted, due to a variety of factors, mostly upbringing and how you are "taught" to function in the world. A psychopath, according to some, is the result of nature. You are born like that, and while it can be dealt with, it will never truly go away. Besides, a psychopath is notoriously difficult to treat, due to them being able to con or manipulate systems to get around obstacles, as well as it being somewhat of a permanent trait.

    A sociopath is often times the one we believe to be a psychopath. They're the ones that, more often than not, get caught or stick out. A psychopath will not do that. See, a sociopath is more about fulfilling a need. A psychopath is too, but they are more focused on making sure they can continue to function as they do, because getting caught potentially means the ride is over. They can't do what they do anymore, and that is true hell for the psychopath.

    I debate whether or not I am a psychopath myself, because I did/do display many of the characteristics. But it is hard to say what just is, ala nature, and what is just dysfunction courtesy of an emotionally cold and unfair family structure, ala nurture.

    Here's some insight, which, I hope, provides some use:

    Psychopath Checklist
    Here's a decent checklist, which I'll use to compare myself to. Also, I can find two or three people (offline) who will, if noted, back me up on these:

    Easily. See, I didn't become a great listener or observer because I cared, at least in the beginning. I became one as it allowed me better accessibility to others, to be more effective at securing them to me, however long I needed, and getting what I want.

    I have many people who will attest to my mastery of manipulation. In fact, it's the primary reason several folks dislike me (but have no problem asking me to do it to others). Even if this all happened years ago, it was that bad.

    I am egotistical. But I've gotten much better about keeping that in check. However, I still dislike being perceived or talked to, as if I'm "just another person".

    People will say I'm confident, and like to speak highly of myself.

    This is true, to a degree. If I see no need for something, I couldn't care less about it. But if allows me to improve or better my chances at something, then I'm all for it. I also admit to enjoying the act of observation a little too much, like some sort of mad scientist, and have been known to incite people simply for my amusement.

    I do my best to stay away from this, and so far I've done remarkably well. However, I must admit, there is a rather macabre pride in my ability to boldly lie to folks.

    This, like the manipulation, is another reason many folks dislike me. Not so much for the lying, but the fact I made smart people fall for it so easily.

    This is also true of me. My last few jobs have been obtained, not through working hard or being the better person, but by knowing the employers and implementing various individually crafted tactics to guarantee me the job. Basically, if doing the 'right thing' doesn't get me what I want, I can resort to underhanded methods.

    This is another reason folks around here, that knew me years ago, are not too fond of me. Not enough to pursue a meaningful relationship of any kind, that is.

    This is true. As horrifying as it may be to some, I don't feel bad when bad things happen to others. If somebody is assaulted, I don't genuinely care. If somebody has their money stolen, I don't genuinely care. I could play with somebody's feelings and not give a damn.

    However, I know others do not like this, and others feel bad about this. Because of this, as well as being so egotistical to challenge myself to defy this possibility, I refrain from indulging in or being indifferent to such activities. I know what to say and how to act for situations, and sometimes I receive gratification, but often times there's an emptiness that can lead to frustration.

    Again, several folks will attest to this about me.

    I see emotions, save anger and apathy, as things to be replicated. I've studied and mimicked them for so long, they're almost second nature to me. Basically, if you need to me to be bubbly and an airhead, that's easy. Same is if you need somebody to be callous and focused. I am a social chameleon, to put it simply.

    This one is interesting, because not only can I find people to back this up, but they actually enjoy and encourage this part of me. Why? Because it can, and has, benefited them. I am an exceptional wingman for people because of this, which is the main reason why folks support me here.

    Ironically, this is what has allowed me to know people so well. To read and communicate with them, as I tend not to be distracted by personal sentiments, save the selfish ones I have.

    I see people as they are, not how I want to see them, and this has served me incredibly well. Back then, and even today. Most call it foresight when putting a positive spin on it.

    Again, this is one of those traits that people support me in. I'm able to speak a very harsh and piercing truth when need be, but I can also say what needs to be said without offending, because I know what words or intentions get a rise out of you, just as I know what things leave you feeling calmer/smarter/less in control. I look at things as they are, not how they make me feel... for the most part, but anger is kind of a dick that likes to show up anyway.

    This one is a half-truth. I could easily live off of others for the rest of my life, but that doesn't appeal to me. For one, it removes power from me and places it into the hands of another. It limits my options, too, and that is just not tolerable.

    But at the same time, the only reason I fulfill my responsibilities isn't because it's right or I have to, it's because it allows me to continue doing what I want to do. This is what makes me selfish. I believe I come first, not due to a superiority-backed motive, but because I do not feel anybody but me can guarantee, for others, a secured standard for living a better life.

    Basically, I'm selfish for selflessness. Weird, I know, but this is just another reason why I'm so damn hard to read or know.

    More so when I was younger. Now, I'm in much better control, but anger has never left me. I tried to get rid of it, but it wasn't happening. So, now, I channel it into things. When I want to punch somebody's face in, I go for a walk or jog. When I feel like I do not have what I deserve, I put that raw emotion into a story. When I think the world fails to acknowledge my efforts, I take that energy and use it to encourage me to get better, to obtain the resources necessary to get somewhere.

    That said, I don't like being irritated. And my first inclination, in most situations, is to metaphorically beat another down until they comply. It's taken years, but I can fight that instinct easier.

    I've never had sex, so this one, I don't know.

    However, I do like the idea of spreading affection around to many people. In a way, this could be considered promiscuous.

    *Holds up background record*

    Oh yeah.

    Started selling illegal drugs at around 13, which allowed me means I wouldn't have known otherwise. I had money, it allowed me to lure people in closer, and there was the freedom.

    Lying, stealing, cheating, vandalism, bullying, just part of the routine. Sexual activity, not so much. Fire-setting? I've attempted to burn down a few buildings, one of which was a church.

    Never really like alcohol. And running away from home, well, I would wander off at times. My parents weren't too strict about us staying out, so long as we didn't bring back trouble.

    Glue-sniffing? Really?!

    This is half-true.

    Again, if I have a need for it, I'm in it for the long haul. If I don't, then it's whatever. I also like to find easier and better ways to do something. Some call this conning the system or evading responsibility, but I call it knowing how to make use of the opportunities in my life, allowing me more free time to actually enjoy my life, as opposed to slaving away.

    Then there's the wanting to rule the world. This is a semi-joke. While I would love to rule the world, I know it isn't a practical thing to accomplish. However, being the curious and somewhat nihilistic individual that I am, I want to see just how far/close to this I can get before the Grim Reaper takes me.

    This was more so true as a child. I've gotten better about it, but not for any real noble reason, at least in the beginning. I just learned, early on, being calm and appearing to be in control and right, did more than forcing people to do as you wanted. Also, I disliked being a slave to my impulses, so I tamed those motherfuckers and they work for me. Now, if I feel impulsive, I take note of why I am feeling that way and reference it. Sometimes I use those feelings to enhance my day, like a sudden surge of motivation to go and run, maybe, a second time that day.

    I could be like this... but I refuse. It cuts me off from opportunities and it makes me unreliable. Things that deny me resources. Now, that said, if I don't give a damn, then I may just spite you for the hell of it.

    See, this isn't exactly "normal" thinking.

    Guilty of this as a child and teenager. But I have gotten better about it. Much better. It used to be, if I'm going down, then everybody is too, or if I can't have it, then nobody will either.

    The vast majority of people I know offline, I only keep around because they serve some use. Sometimes it allows me a network of sorts, and others, they provide particular services or opportunities. If I need something, they'll have it, or if they are writing a paper and need somebody to do it for them, hey, that's extra money for me.

    I can say that I do not have anybody, offline, I'd consider a friend.

    I'm tempted to post my juvenile delinquency record sheet, but that's too much information and it goes against EC's guidelines. But trust me when I say, my offenses, they're like Poke'mon, I had to catch 'em all.

    Partially true. In my youthful past when I was faced with being put into a juvenile detention center or arrested, I knew how to work the system to get by with the bare minimum of punishments. So it isn't so much a failure to revoke the sentence as it was, bringing down the outcome so that it allows me to walk free, without any significant blemish to my record.

    This is the reason why a handful of people hate my guts, and will never forgive me. Remember when I mentioned, a few parts back, that I had attempted to burn a church? Well, I let somebody else take the fall for that. In fact, it's the whole reason I brought them there. They wound up serving time for it and, well, they have that on their record.

    And that's only one person I've screwed over.

    You count the formerly selling illegal narcotics, the vandalism, and the assaults (punching somebody in the face for about 30 minutes, until they go blind in one eye, is not "boys being boys" -- I was 11, which is why I got away with that), and I have quite a rap sheet.

    Am I proud of it? I was at the time, because having a plan come together is a very encouraging and reaffirming sensation. But now, while I don't feel any shame about it, I understand why these are not things to proclaim as worthy of praise.

    Take that for what you will.
     
    #16 Kaiser, Oct 5, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2015
  17. guitar

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    If you're interested in this topic, I highly recommend a Norweigan documentary series called Brainwash. It's a 7-part series where they examine nature vs. nature and the role it plays with regards to sex, race, sexual orientation, kids (how influenced are they by genetics vs. environment).
     
  18. AlamoCity

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    Narture.

    As Austin stated, it usually takes both, a predisposition and environmental factors (can be anything from womb conditions to the actual social environment).
     
    #18 AlamoCity, Oct 5, 2015
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  19. biAnnika

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    This is rather akin to asking "are humans rational? or emotional? where do you stand?"