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Why can men go shirtless, but not women?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by HuskyPup, Nov 20, 2015.

  1. HuskyPup

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    I was pondering this the other day. Boys and men can go without shirts on the beach, on sidewalks, and in many other places, whereas women can't. I've never quite understood the reason why.

    I have heard the argument that the 'sex organs' need to covered, but the breasts are not like a penis or a vagina. They may be something people tend to use as a means of sexual differentiation, but in that case the lack of breasts would be just as arbitrary a reason to keep that part of the body covered as would be having breasts.

    They have the 'natural' function of nursing, and in that sense, of being life sustaining, so why are they not celebrated, instead of being hidden away as something taboo??? I know this is not the case in all cultures, but it certainly is in the US. To me, it's a mixture of sexism and the uneasiness so many Americans still have about sex; our puritanical background, and how much guilt there is about the human body, even in this day and age.
     
  2. Plattyrex

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    I think shirtlessness is gross. In my opinion, the problem isn't that women can't go shirtless, it's that men can.
     
  3. Yosia

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    In this society, breasts are sexualised whether we want them to be or not. I fully agree that women should be allowed to be topless, but in our society, its just not going to happen unless something changes.

    This world is, for lack of a better term, absolutely fucked.
     
  4. HuskyPup

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    That's odd. Why should the human body be gross???

    Now I'm going to have to lobby for a law in Michigan that bans all shirt-wearing, between June to August! :evil: :slight_smile:
     
  5. Plattyrex

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    Yeah, I guess I really kinda wrote that without thinking. I guess really it's just society that makes people consider nudity inherently bad. As for women not being able to go shirtless, I'd say it's really just how society views breasts. Gender roles are not a pleasant thing at all, and they create a lot of harmful double standards against both genders. What I meant when I said I thought shirtlessness was gross was that shirtless men can make me uncomfortable. Most people would say that someone without a shirt on I is attractive, and if there's a really hot guy going shirtless it's naturally gonna put me in an awkward position, and I would say the same is probably true for a lot of straight men and lesbians. I suppose that's not really something that should be outlawed though. That's deciding hands are too attractive, thus everyone has to wear gloves. There. I said something smart.
     
  6. Austin

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    Society views breasts as sexual organs and treats them as such. It's just a social norm followed in most places to cover them up. I'm not sure if there is a practical reason. It'll take a lot of work (and a lot of generations dying off) to normalize shirtlessness for women and honestly it's not something I find urgent enough to be worth the effort.

    This question seems to be fairly self-serving in that we already know what most people think the answer is "because men are evil and sexual breasts and want to oppress women."

    ---------- Post added 20th Nov 2015 at 01:16 PM ----------

    Society views breasts as sexual organs and treats them as such. It's just a social norm followed in most places to cover them up. I'm not sure if there is a practical reason. It'll take a lot of work (and a lot of generations dying off) to normalize shirtlessness for women and honestly it's not something I find urgent enough to be worth the effort.

    This question seems to be fairly self-serving in that we already know what most people think the answer is "because men are evil and sexual breasts and want to oppress women."
     
  7. 741852963

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    I think they are though. They are frequently seen as a central point in heterosexual male sexual attraction*, so I don't think they are neutral.

    I'm guessing its down to combination of the following:
    1. Breasts are (in many cases) "external" features that protrude from the body and can be "wiggly" parts - as such it is probably similar to the ban on men showing their "wiggly parts", and why going braless is still also a massive taboo.
    2. Breasts are an organ that can excrete something (by contrast male nipples are usually dry), again, this may be similar to the ban on genitals - its the typical association of bodily fluids as vulgar. To be honest there is kind of a point here; urine is perfectly sterile (arguably more so even than breast milk), but I wouldn't necessarily want to see urine excreting or leaking parts on display. Perhaps its a similar concern?
    3. There is a difference in nipples. Male nipples tend to be smaller and stand less proud when aroused/cold/stimulated.
    4. Perhaps an element of "public safety" at play. I don't want to get into the whole "slut walk" business, but given the massive sexualisation of female breasts I'm guessing women who would go topless might attract a lot of attention, perhaps even sexual harassment after being perceived as "easy". Mind you, there is the argument that women should have the autonomy to choose for themselves if they are happy to run this risk?

    I do appreciate how it can be seen as restrictive though - although generally overweight and underweight men can also be heavily shamed for going topless and discouraged from doing so. I'm sure even if it was made legal for women to go topless, there would still be similar policing (I doubt you would see obese women or those with large breasts being given free reign).

    I'm not fussed either way though.

    *That is not to say shirtless men are not sexualised, but I think what is quite different is the way they are sexualised. I think the attraction towards female breasts is very tuned and specific towards that one area, almost "fetish" like (hence why your have porn and magazines about offering "Boobs" and "tits"). By contrast, with attraction towards men it is more the "whole picture" of the torso (hence things like "Torso of the week" in women's mags). It isn't quite the same, there might be a "he has a nice body", or "his chest (usually meaning upper arms, shoulders, chest combined) is sexy", but far less likely to hear is "his pecs are sexy", or "his nipples turn me on".
     
  8. BryanM

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    It's because female breasts are hypersexualized in modern culture. Personally, I could not care less if a woman decides to go topless, and the city I live in for Uni, it's legal for them to go topless in public if they so wish. :slight_smile:
     
  9. WhereWeWere

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    Seeing men shirtless actually used to be totally taboo in society. It evolved. If we evolved to think it's completely normal to see women shirtless, then it won't be taboo. Some African countries see women's breasts as a totally normal thing.

    But not in our society. Which is why I can't wait to get top surgery one day, not have to worry about putting on a bra, going to the beach without a top, oh my god. It's my dream.
     
  10. HuskyPup

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    @741852963

    Well, they may be seen as arousing, but so can the male chest, and the male nipples, which are also an erogenous zone. One hears much talk describing the 'beauty' of the exposed male chest among gay people and straight alike, so I don't think it's so different.

    And I've seen some male breasts that are also pretty 'wiggly'! Being wiggly seems like an odd reason to cover something, as well: by this token, any part of the body that is overweight would also have to be covered.

    I would not say the breasts are at all like the genitals; to me, it's very arbitrary. And if they excrete milk, the elixir of life to the growing human, then what is so taboo and horrible about that, that they must be covered?

    I'm not saying that everyone go shirtless everywhere, but on beaches and such, I can't see why women have under such prudish, Victorian morals.

    Anyway, I can see why people are conditioned to being squeamish, but I still don't get why people freak out so much over something like boobs.
     
    #10 HuskyPup, Nov 20, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015
  11. BMC77

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    Breasts are of some sexual interest to straight men, which might be one issue. Although, of course, this raises one question in my mind. Are straight men fascinated by breasts because it's a natural, attraction inherently in straight men? Or is part of it programming by society--breasts are "hidden" and thus become a sort of forbidden fruit, making them of more interest to straight men?

    Going past breasts, I have to admit a part of me sometimes wonders why we have problems with nudity in this country. Yes, I suppose sex organs are sex organs...but guess what? That's a natural part of life. Those parts are a natural part of the body. And--while my experience with sex is zero--I have to think that there's more to sex, anyway, than Part A going into Part B.
     
  12. TigerInATophat

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  13. photoguy93

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    We live in a world where abstinence is still being taught.

    That's why we can't have this conversation, haha.
     
  14. ThatBorussenGuy

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    [​IMG] Then how am I going to keep my unwanted titties hidden, Husky?

    Oh, who am I kidding, I barely leave my house in the summer, anyways. :roflmao:
     
    #14 ThatBorussenGuy, Nov 20, 2015
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  15. justinf

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    I'm all for women going shirtless! :lol:

    In all seriousness, one of my friends once said it's an American thing that women can't go topless on the beach. They definitely can, and do, over here.
     
    #15 justinf, Nov 20, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015
  16. Kaboom

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    :lol: thank you
     
  17. Steve FS

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    Well, with the trend of skimpy clothing, I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually normalize shirtlessness. I swear, some people are just 1 centimeter away from a nip slip, haha.
     
    #17 Steve FS, Nov 20, 2015
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  18. Jellal

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    In a perfect world, shirtlessness would just be the hallmark of confidence, and nothing more.

    Y'know what I find really weird, is why so many men would be stubbornly railing against what should be the world's most obvious turn-on. In a way ... it seems almost like some kind of masochistically imposed ordinance that women "can't be shirtless." Like, it makes life just a little bit worse for everyone. And it really, really, really doesn't have to be this way. But it is, because fuck personal freedoms.
     
  19. Plattyrex

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    Hooray! Somebody agrees with me! I actually did something!
     
  20. Ryujin

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    Because stupid social standards.
    That's why.