Planned Parenthood Shooting Thoughts

Killing people is wrong. Killing innocent people is always wrong. Killing non-innocent people is often wrong. Killing=bad, so let's stop doing that thing. Im a big fan of not shooting people, so let's collectively (as a society) stop killing people, for any reason.

 

There is absolutely no justification for murder or even just shooting at people whatsoever I think we can all agree with that no matter what side of the issue your on.

 

Why do people think murder is justified ever? I don't really have a strong stance on abortion one way or the other, but even if you think it's wrong your opinion immediately becomes worthless when you murder people over it. If you hate abortion that much protest, don't kill people. All these people are doing is hurting their cause.

 

Can somebody explain this whole situation to me? I've heard of it but I don't really understand the whole picture

 

I think that this is a natural consequence of having a sincere belief that abortion is murder.

 

While I am a firm believer that in most cases of terrorism, a person's last line of defense from committing these acts is themselves (except for in some certain cases), I believe that anti-choice, right wing rhetoric played a role in this shooting. It's not just a coincidence that the shooter once captured said "no more baby parts". That's the exact misinformation about Planned Parenthood's services that the right has been repeating ad nauseum for about three months now. People like Mike Huckabee, Carly Fiorina, Josh Feuerstein and other major figures on the right wing need to be called out for their rhetoric. Feuerstein made a video here recently after the Planned Parenthood videos leaked about people striking fear into abortion doctors and providers. He took it down, but not before people found it and took what he said possibly literally.

 

The fact that women have to fear getting killed for seeking a legal medical procedure just goes to show how extreme the "Pro life" movement can be. The group behind the videos, The GOP presidential candidates, They all have blood on their hands. It's truly sickening...

 

Now there are extremists in every group and I don't certainly not gonna throw all pro lifers under the bus and call them extreme because of the actions of one individual and also say that they have blood on there hands. Almost like a gay man being a child molester and someone than claiming all gay men are child molesters. There are extremists in every group and i know some very decent human beings who are pro life.

The conservatives have spoken out against planned parenthood and it is their right to do so and this man had a choice to bring a guy into that place and no conservative politician suggested he do exactly that.

 

I'm not calling all anti-choicers extreme. What I am saying is that this behavior is the natural consequence of a sincere belief that abortion is murder.

I'm surprised that we don't see more domestic terrorism if people really believe this.

 

Actually, they kind of did. When you start screaming that abortion is a "holocaust" and that abortion providers should be executed, what do you think is going to happen? Dr. George Tiller was shot by members of Operation Rescue, a radical anti-abortion group responsible for several bombings and arsons of abortion clinics, and wore a bulletproof vest the rest of his life.

16 years later, after Bill O'Reilly and several Republican members of the House of Representatives derisively referred to him as "Tiller the baby killer," an anti-abortion terrorist named Scott Roeder went into George Tiller's church and shot him at point blank range in the head in the middle of a worship service. Conservatives all over the country then raised money for his legal defense, though he was later convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to life in prison without parole.

Since the early 80's, when extreme social conservatism went mainstream, anti-abortion extremists have committed over 400 abortion-motivated acts of terror according to the FBI. From killing doctors to blowing up clinics or burning clinics down, to stalking and harassment, to one incident in 2002 when another extremist tried mailing Anthrax to Planned Parenthood's headquarters in New York, violent extremists egged on by far-right politicians and Fox News talking heads are getting people killed all across the country.

The FBI and the Department of Homeland Security has been publishing since the early 2000's that the far right's politically-motivated attacks are becoming more and more of a threat than foreign terrorism. (Citations here, here, and here.)

In fact, here's a quote from the FBI's report:

Right-wing extremists may be gaining new recruits by playing on their fears about several emergent issues. The economic downturn and the election of the first African American president present unique drivers for right-wing radicalization and recruitment.

When Republican politicians scream tha dangerous rhetoric about how abortion is "genocide" and "murder" and "The American holocaust," they're egging these kinds of people on. When you get armed, violent extremists riled up, people get killed. And now that conservatives are celebrating the Planned Parenthood attack, it'll probably happen again somewhere else.

 

If you're pro-life, then you can't also be pro-murder... :***:

 

That is a fair point but they are not gonna stop that kind of rhetoric because it is the same rhetoric they been playing with for forty some years. It is said how politically extreme people are getting in this country. It is also hypocritical as you cannot be pro life and than commit a murderous act like this. You can also not be pro life and push someone such as a lgbt person to the brink of suicide as that is completely contradictory to what it means to be pro life. But I don't underestimate the genuine concerns people had over abortion. I mean my grandma would never harm anyone and she is now 82 and cried for days after Rove vs Wade was decided. I think that decision holds more weight over conservative people than gay marriage or basic gay rights. But they never focus on divorce, adultery, stealing, lying it just the these issues they obsess about and draw people to extreme measure. When I found out my cousins opposed gay rights I so badly wanted to mention that their mother had been divorced four times but i didn't. These people to this day don't realize the hypocrisy of their views and how the maintain focus on these two issues and not other issues as i mentioned.

 

Tell this to the IRA.

 

I think the rhetoric gives wackos and/or haters that extra push or perceived permission to go out and do something like this.

As far as him being a Christian, I don't see any evidence of it. In fact, I think his Dad was a pastor and the shooter rejected his religious beliefs. Did his upbringing cause his anti-abortion feelings? Probably.

Beware of people who rant about issues over and over again. They are time bombs in my opinion. They work themselves up into a frenzy and can't be reasoned with. I guess I'm stating the obvious... extremists are dangerous.

 

I think the problem is that somebody who feels abortion is a holocaust may consider it necessary. Basically beating up your bully so he quits taking your lunch money, except doing it to protect lives.

Don't mistake this for agreement; I only hope to understand their perspective. While I am pro-choice, I'm not a huge fan of abortion either. But to come into the same hemisphere as "shoot people who choose to do it" is rampant insanity.

 

I agree and think this is important to point out. Let's not call these terrorists lunatics. They are simply people have a adopted an incorrect belief. The only reason the stakes are higher is because the belief they've adopted is basically one that compels violence. Anytime you're comparing something to the Holocaust (especially if you're saying abortion is worse, which I have actually seen on my Facebook), any resistance to it is compelled, categorically justified, and quite commendable.

Aside from the human cost of these tragic events, they provide others with a way to distance themselves as somehow responsible members of the democracy, even though
their beliefs aren't really that much less violent than this man's.

 

Problem is no matter what happens the rhetoric is never going to change. I was reading a lot of the conservative and anti choice reactions to this and there's no introspection whatsoever. Even when it was being condemned there was always a but followed by an attack on Planned Parenthood or abortion using the same talking points, speech and lies as before.

I can't imagine what it must be to work at an abortion clinic or PP these days, let alone make use of their services.