Opening my eyes on gun control

I think the anti-gun left should get its wishes on gun control. We'll see what happens. I don't anticipate that hate crimes against minorities will be reduced in any meaningful way. But I could be wrong.

 

I know what your thoughts on the matter are so don't take what I'm about to post as confrontational.

But when bad people wreak havoc, what do you do? Call somebody with a gun. If the cops are unarmed as is the case in the UK, what do they do when they can't contain a situation? Call somebody with a gun. In the continuation of normal society, the gun is the end of the line.

Gun control is all about who you want at that end. Somebody else who is not necessarily going to be there when you need them, or yourself with the caveat that you may be on the receiving end of somebody abusing that right. Or if somebody inflicts violence without one, you'd better hope you don't need one to protect yourself or thanks for taking one for the team. :/

 

I agree. And I don't want racist, sexist, heterosexist, trans-denialist white trash on that end.

 

I would pretty much consider myself a pacifist, so I really hate guns. That being said there are a lot of issues that are going to need to be addressed before gun control would actually be able to stop things like this from happening. The United States has way too many guns already on the streets and they would still be there even if we were to stop legal distribution of guns. Another problem is organized crime. The USA has a lot of organized crime and it would be silly to think that they aren't more than capable of illegally obtaining and distributing firearms. The mafia was created by the United States placing a ban on alcohol. Gun control would certainly make them more powerful and influential. I am in no way opposed to gun control. If guns could just be wiped off the face of the earth right now I would love it. But if we are going to be viewed as the smarter side to the issue we have to view it objectively. There are necessary steps that need to be taken before gun control in the USA will work, as our situation is not the same as it was in most countries that saw massive declines in crime when guns were outlawed. We have to get guns off of the streets and crack down on the ridiculously large amounts of organized crime we have. I hate violence and I don't want everyone who is physically capable of making a trip to the gun store being able to obtain a firearm, but there are alternative sources that people can obtain weapons from. There is much more that needs to be done than just enforcing gun control if we actually want to prevent these issues.

 

My opinion has changed a lot in the last few years. Two years ago I'd have been one of those guys who, after Sandy Hook, said "Train the teachers to use firearms as well and put an armed guard outside the schools", but now I've come to realize that idea is utter absurdity.

Mind you, I support the 2nd Amendment. I was raised by a father who loves to hunt; I don't have the patience for hunting, but I still like to shoot. It's fun. But I'm for the 2nd Amendment within reason.

It is not a bad idea at all to do more thorough, stringent background checks to prevent mentally disturbed individuals or convicted, violent felons from having guns. Some people do not need access to such things.

It is not a bad idea to close the damn gun show loophole. Far too many criminals prefer to get their guns that way because of no background checks, and that's fucking dangerous. There's no good reason for that loophole to exist.

And the damn NRA just needs to be kneecapped already. Every week we're hearing about a new mass shooting, and the damn politicians taking the NRA's blood money do nothing. These corrupt politicians are being paid to fight against gun reform at the cost of human lives, and that's why nothing is getting changed.

 

I read your comments... how you are changing your minds... and I get hopeful that maybe the US will change their gun laws. But then I read the comments under the Wall Street Journal article about today's tragedy... from the educated masses no less, and looks like at least 80% on there are staunchly and vigorously opposing any gun laws. How is that possible? Kind of makes me wonder if NRA members go out in full force after a mass shooting and puke their rhetoric all over the country? Are those posters actually NRA nutcases, not Wall Street Journal readers? I'm beginning to suspect that.

 

America's liberal gun laws condition more violence. Much stricter laws would be better. Then again, in some places that might be undesirable, such as in places where the police are killing black people.... I don't know..

 

the thing is, even if citizens are protecting themselves against cops, those citizens are technically going against the law, and will most likely be arrested and put through crap.
gun control is one thing, but a dysfunctional government is another.
I have no idea how America can recover from all this crap that's been going down. Especially when many people turn a blind eye.

 

I just wonder why citizens of a country not in active warfare in their homeland wants to arm themselves so much.

 

They fear the government. And themselves.

 

Guns should be regulated like cars. Licenses, liability insurance, education, and taxes. And just like regular civilians don't get to drive and own 18 wheelers, regular civilians shouldn't be allowed to have ak47s. I have no problem with people owning guns in their home for hunting or personal protection but we need to regulate who gets what kinds of guns and that they're being used safely and competently

 

I agree, exactly exactly on how it should be handled. I'm assuming this post was inspired by the California and planned parenthood shooting (I don't know when this thread was posted)? Funnily, in California you need a concealed carrying permit and Colorado has similar laws. I don't think they're good ammunition (pun intended) in an argument against gun control, if anything I think they show that bad stuff is going to happen no matter what we do.

I'm actually going the opposite of you, EmOfSuburbia, I used to be 100% for banning guns but recently I've become more moderate in my stance. I agree that something needs to be done about all these shootings though.

 

The term "pro-second amendment" has been warped and twisted so much that it's a shell of its true meaning. The second amendment gives you the right to own a firearm. It does not give you the right to own military-style assault rifles. It does not give you the right to gather your fellow anarchist terrorists and attempt to overthrow the government. It does not give you the right to terrorize innocent people who happen to be eating in a fast food restaurant. It does not give you the right to carry it openly or concealed in public, and nor should it.

I support the rit ht of an individual to own a gun for home defense and hunting. I don't support the ability of gun fetishists to stockpile weapons and I agree with Ronald Reagan in that an AK-47 or an SKS is not a sporting weapon. I think we need to use the tools already at the disposal of the FBI, the CIA, and the Department of Homeland Security to monitor websites for terroristic or extremist threats and manifestos, and confiscate their guns. If you're on a terrorist watch list, you can't buy a plane ticket, but you can easily buy a gun.

The Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks and reports right-wing violence and the rise of hate groups to assist law enforcement, reports that the typical extremist who has a high potential for violence is generally middle-aged, angry, and armed. We need to focus on preventing right-wing lone-wolf attackers from obtaining guns if we're going to stop the carnage.

The way we do this is by passing federal gun control laws that have effect in all 50 states. The reason these people from yesterday's shooting were able to get assault weapons, which are illegal in California, is by the same method that gangs use: buy the gun in Arizona, Nevada, or Idaho, where there are absolutely no laws whatsoever regarding background checks or assault weapons, and drive them into California.

 

The problem isn't guns. semi automatic handguns have been available since the early 1900s, the AR-15 went on sale to civilians in 1963, the two rifles used in yesterday's shooting were clones of the AR-15, and the design hasn't changed much since 1963. Shootings like this were rare though until about 15-20 years ago, these guns had been available for 30 years already at that time.

Too early to know about yesterday, but in all the televised shootings in the last 20 years the shooter has been prescribed drugs for a mental health problem. Mental health issues should be reported when the gun dealer does the FBI instant background check. That would have also prevented most (though not all) the shootings in the last 20 years.

The other big change that I can see is the 24 hour news cycle. During the first gulf war, CNN was the only 24 hour news station. They didn't become popular even until they covered that war. Now we have at least 6 24 hour news stations that need to fill air time. They sensationalize each shooting giving the shooter their 15 min of fame, even if posthumously.



The one thing that remains true for me is, I will NEVER vote for a politician that either does not support LGBT equality, or supports gun control.

 

I agree with this.

And this, 100%.

 

And as we've found in the last several years, people are too immature to handle them, as the ones who aren't shooting up schools and office buildings are terrorizing people at McDonalds with them to make a political point. Guns are the problem because we have decided as a country that these kinds of mass killings are a necessary evil and God forbid we do anything to keep them out of the hands of deranged lunatics because Second Amendment. Have you ever wondered why states with the least restrictive gun laws have the highest numbers of mass shootings? Because they do nothing to stop the ammosexuals from stockpiling more and more weapons.

Not true. Once again, it's so easy to go to a state like Louisiana or Arizona where there are no background checks, no registration, or any laws whatsoever on the books regarding guns and then taking them home. The "mental health" refrain is just like the "all lives matter" refrain-it's a clever way of distracting from the real crux of the issue by saying something that only makes sense if you don't actually put any thought into it. Just like "all lives matter" takes race out of a racial issue, "mental health" takes guns out of a gun issue. The real issue at hand is the fact that right-wing extremists are stockpiling guns with the fantasy of committing politically-motivated terrorist attacks like the one at Planned Parenthood in Colorado Springs. It's a cheap way of saying the equivalent of, "Look at that shiny object over there and ignore the elephant in the room!"

This really has nothing to do with anything. If CNN, FOX, ABC, NBC, and CBS all shut down tomorrow, it wouldn't stop the next anti-government "patriot" from shooting up the DMV, it wouldn't stop a bullied kid from killing his bullies at his high school, and it wouldn't do anything about the gun fetish culture in America that fosters these kinds of anti-government extremist views that have gone mainstream in the last seven years.

Put simply, trying to do anything other than gun control to solve a gun problem is like taking a Vicodin to deal with the chest pain instead of treating the heart attack you're having. Every argument I've heard against gun control the last three years boils down to this:

School shootings and mass killings are perfectly fine as long as I can purchase military style weapons for my own hoard without making sure I'm not a terrorist first. Because Second Amendment. Black helicopters! New World Order! Ajenda 21! Obama! Overthrow the government!

 

Aside from that the second ammendment clearly refers to a well regulated and maintained militia. Putting limits on who can and cannot own a gun is not unconstitutional in any way. There's no part of the second ammendment preventing the implementation of strict background checks before purchasing a firearm. The NRA has corrupted the second ammendment's meaning beyond belief.

 

This is probably the best answer to this situation. The Second Amendment was not intended to be a free-for-all on guns, but the lobbyists would have us believe that is true. It makes no sense to me that marijuana and prostitution are either illegal or more strictly regulated than firearms are.

This is truly a frustrating situation when many of our candidates for president are simply offering "thoughts and prayers" in each case. Let's stop just thinking and praying about the violence and actually do something about it.