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Are Churches Full of Delusional People?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Open Arms, Dec 15, 2015.

  1. Open Arms

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    Rather than ranting about an ignorant comment such as "Churches are cold, ugly places filled with delusional people"... which really is not much different than a blanket statement like "The gay community is a sinful place full of sluts" let me challenge you to watch this Oxford scholar's take on Hawkins' "The God Delusion". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPibPw1Kx0s

    What I've found on EC is a lot of statements painting people of faith as intellectually inferior and just plain ignorant when really it is reflecting their own ignorance on the subject in my opinion. Many of you have such a narrow view on this, you have put all religious people in a small box along with the extremist conservatives. It's unfair and intellectually dishonest. Even the New Atheism disagrees with many Hawkins' arguments btw.

    Anyhow, churches have many brilliant people like John Lennox sitting in their pews who have thought through their faith and are as bright as any other mind on the planet, yours included so stop with the baseless insults already.
     
    #1 Open Arms, Dec 15, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2015
  2. Secrets5

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    Hello,

    I don't think Church goers are full of delusional (incorrect interpretation of reality*) people, I think it's just that the religious texts are so vague in parts it's hard to know what the Bible's saying.

    Also, the reality of 2000 years ago is most likely different from reality today so I think it's more about the Bible not always being applicable to modern times [or post-modern times some say], than 2000 years ago being incorrect.

    Some aspects of the Bible, I've found, talk about making [hu]man's equal and telling everyone the truth - if you take my Marxist interpretation of Levictus 20:13, so this is applicable to modern day life.

    As an end question, what do you think someone, 2000 years in the future, would think the acronym YOLO meant/means?

    Reference:The word is used frequently, but what does being "delusional" really mean? - Ask Doctor K - Ask Doctor K, Harvard Medical School
     
    #2 Secrets5, Dec 15, 2015
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  3. AlamoCity

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    Well, I do feel the same message could have been said without saying "as a 35 yr old EC member just stated in another thread."

    I will agree with your sentiment that sometimes religious and pious people are perceived as intellectually inferior to atheists/agnostics as if a belief in the divine is a sign of of a mental handicap, a person who is a few rungs down the evolutionary ladder. While I don't necessarily believe in God, I am more inclined to be judgmental on how one believes in God.

    While I'm a big fan of the First Amendment (both speech and religion, in this case), I do also believe in common courtesy and respect in these matters and that one should, when possible, avoid belittling someone for their beliefs or lack thereof (although a lack of belief in the divine is still a "belief" in this case :lol:slight_smile:.
     
  4. angeluscrzy

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    The biggest problem I have with religion are the zealots that use their faith as an excuse to persecute and lay judgement on those they feel fall short of their ideals. I would never say that each individual person who believes is flawed or anything, but as a whole, let's just say I don't get the "warm and fuzzies" from religious people.
     
    #4 angeluscrzy, Dec 15, 2015
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  5. pinkpanther

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    Atheism has a tendency to bury its own undertakers. Be careful with that you think, you might find the results of your deductions highly disturbing.

    Also the video that you posted was pure garbage. Why not post the entire debate? Instead you posted baseless propaganda video with excerpts from the bible and who knows what... Can you even write a rebuttal of Hawking's "The God Delusion" book, if you disagree with it? Have you actually read the book in a serious manner?

    p.s. This comment isn't an insult. Consider it to be a challenge-comment.
     
    #5 pinkpanther, Dec 15, 2015
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  6. SemiCharmedLife

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    It doesn't matter what you believe. Just don't be an asshole about it, or an asshole in general.
     
  7. LogicNoSense

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    I've never attended a proper church event, but I study in a catholic school.

    I do suppose that different churches have different...'amounts' of delusional people. Especially since there are so many different types. When it gets down to it, instead of delusional, I would say how much of an extremist they are, so...sometimes there are, sometimes there ain't. Problem solved.
     
  8. Open Arms

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    The term YOLO has nowhere near the history of Judaism and Christianity which is a worldview that has shaped much of our civilization. If YOLO survives for as many centuries on earth as the Judeo-Christian worldview has, then yes, it will be recognized 2,000 yrs from now.

    What gets me is how dismissive young people are of something they know diddly squat about.

    When I hear a 35-yr old make an angry comment about church or Christians, I am quite sure it's not because they have researched the subject, but because they have been very HURT by Christians or some traditional beliefs of Christianity that are attributed to the Bible. That I accept is totally on us Christians and we have to correct that very serious wrong.

    As Lennox says, science (and the present world view of many of you on here I'd say), has NO answers for the simple questions of a child. Where do we come from? Why are we here? Where are we going? These are fundamental questions of life. These are questions that are answered for you, but only through the eyes of faith. If you don't want a worldview that includes faith in God, the Bible or anything religious, fine. That is your right as a human being, BUT don't crap all over people who hold onto that worldview and find it has given them peace, joy and purpose.

    If the person had said " I find churches cold and ugly, and I think the people in the pews have beliefs that I find delusional." that would be their opinion and not nearly as offensive.
     
  9. kageshiro

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    Religious people can be just as delusional as athiests can be pretentious jerks, there's a basis in truth to both claims. Neither one is entirely true for all religious people or athiests.
     
    #9 kageshiro, Dec 15, 2015
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  10. Open Arms

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    Angelus, I see that as a fair critique. All I ask for is fairness in this matter.
    I get that many of you were and are being terribly mistreated because of how gays have been viewed by Christians in the past.

    However, it wasn't just Christians who persecuted gays. It seems everyone did, including scientists who said for quite some time that it was a mental disorder. Do I hear anger against Freud for his views on gays, or doctors who thought something was wrong in our brains? No. It's always Blame the Christians. And very few Christian gays speak up to defend their faith, I must say. No doubt because of the world of hurt put on them by their churches :frowning2:
     
    #10 Open Arms, Dec 15, 2015
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  11. justin88

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    Couldn't have said it better myself!
     
  12. MCairo

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    The world is full is delusional people, believers or non-believers.
     
  13. AwesomGaytheist

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    I'll speak from experience here. I grew up in a United Methodist Church, and met quite a few wonderful people, some of whom I still consider friends to this day. However there were quite a few anti-abortion extremists who celebrated the murder of George Tiller back in 2009. The majority of the congregation openly preached their hellfire-and-damnation homophobia, and there were even some who were anti-Semitic. That's just my experience.
     
  14. angeluscrzy

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    Any disdain I have hardly stops at just religion. I think religion gets a lot of the flack because it is the pulpit from which a lot of loud-mouth, bigoted assholes stand. That said, I'm perfectly willing to make case-by-case exceptions.
     
  15. Steve FS

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    All I have to say is that there are a lot of Christians that need to do their own damn research. Stop listening to biggoted preachers and read the bible. And not the newly translated bibles either with biased entries - King James is a good one. A lot of preachers like to use hate and fear as their driving force to manipulate the masses. There is nothing more ungodly.
     
  16. SubZero

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    I think it really depends on the individual. To make a claim that everybody who attends church is delusional or that all Christians are delusional is ridiculous.

    However, I've met people who would arguably fit the "delusional" category, but maybe delusional isn't the right word. Stubborn or narrow-minded perhaps? I've attended church when I was younger and mostly everyone there was kind, friendly, welcoming, open-minded, etc. There was a significant proportion, however, that would criticize anybody who doesn't share their exact personal beliefs. They'd point the finger at everybody and would follow a strict interpretation of stricture and say that anybody who doesn't aren't true followers of God. (Not just their idea of homosexuality by the way; literally everything)

    Maybe these overly-judgmental Christians are the ones some people claim are "delusional". It's possible that people get the wrong idea of Christians as a whole because a certain percentage of them would rather cast judgement and use fear tactics on people. THEY are the ones that I think are delusional.
     
  17. Michael

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    I wouldn't say ungodly, but unchristian.

    I'm one of those raised up in a religious enviroment, also went to religious schools, and experienced a lot of hypocrisy and homophobia (... you don't want me to describe the transphobia, you can't even imagine how rotten and depressing it was back then).

    I haven't ever been to any church who is gay and trans- friendly. I know some christians are, but I just know 'cause I heard it, not actually from seeing or experiencing it. This, together with the fact that many Christian churches are nothing but money machines ruled by huge sick egomaniacs, this makes me very cautious against everyone I met and tells me he or she is religious... Which doesn't mean I wouldn't help if they need help, it's just that I don't want any troubles or pointless rants, or being told how wrong am I and how my flesh will burn in hell.

    I see myself as an atheist, but I accept I can't prove my (lack of) beliefs. The problem comes when I try to point out that neither can you (at least not with modern, serious science). So if I come in all humility, why the fuck shouldn't you? Obviously 'cause it would prove that your faith is somehow invalid from an intellectual point of view, which you do not want. Ergo, you don't want any kind of rational conversation, you seem to want to evangelize me or condemn me.

    I won't judge you if you are delusional or not, who am I to do that? I'm not your personal doctor or a psychiatrist. I find some churches beautiful, even if I'm not sure I approve the way you raised up the money, but I do love to see them, be on them and study them. I also love to see your best people following true Christian values by helping the poor, sick and needy, but the Churches need to be transparent and live according to what they preach... Or at least not to make use of their privileges (including money) to spread more hate. I don't care what Church we are talking about : You believers live on a society with civil laws, and if you don't stick to them, if you keep causing misery to the youth and making us all miserable through your damned greed, then you do not belong to the 21th century, you belong only to history, and not the best part of it.

    You need to change your evil ways, baby...
     
  18. Steve FS

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    Ah, unchristian. That was the word I was looking for.
     
  19. ForNarnia

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    Of course not. They have a right to their beliefs. Religion has been around for such a long time, there must be something in it.
     
  20. PerfectlyNormal

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    Some like the ones at my school are:
    "Health food is unbiblical.
    It is a sin to smoke because it is unhealthy.
    It is ignorant to stop something for health reasons.
    The earth is underpopulated.
    The oceans drained after the flood; the friction boiled the oceans,making it steam, allowing the continents to move faster and faster as more and more friction caused more and more steam.
    It is a wrong to not have four or more children.
    It is a sin to not break a child's will.
    The world will end in two years or less (said every year for years).
    Pacifists should go to Canada where it is Communist.
    Canada is a very communist country, anyone can get all the money and food and property and healthcare for free.
    ^All from school
     
    #20 PerfectlyNormal, Dec 15, 2015
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