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Questions you've always wanted answered about Christians

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by warholwendy, Jan 23, 2016.

  1. warholwendy

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    Seeing Danni's thread about Muslims inspired this. I wouldn't describe myself as a Christian but rather a theologian, however I do go to a Christian church and my area is predominantly Christian. I can answer most questions although my experience is mostly Baptist.
     
  2. Secrets5

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    I'm Christian too, but I've always wondered this and got no one else to ask. Why would my primary school tell me God loves everyone, when growing up I've found that God does not?
     
  3. Skaros

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    What types of limits on sexual morality are placed in the church? I've never seen a clear answer besides "marry the opposite sex and have sex when you get married for the purpose of making babies". I was raised by Greek Orthodox parents, but they were never taking me to church every Sunday and never really taught me a lot about God. I hear so many conflicting things with different churches. Is sex before marriage okay? Is sex with the same sex okay? Is there any clear answer in the Bible that is against marrying a pre-teen (back then it was okay in many parts) or multiple partners (the Mormon church practices polygamy)?

    When the topic of LGBT issues and religion comes up, this is something I never have a clear answer for because I don't think there really is a clear answer. What's your take on sexual morality in the church? I especially would like your opinion as a Baptist, because Baptists tend to be pretty conservative on this issue.
     
    #3 Skaros, Jan 23, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2016
  4. warholwendy

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    I see you live in England so IDK how to answer this. Over here schools are generally anti-religion, as in there isn't supposed to be any mention of God outside of religious services held at the school. I guess I'm confused as to what you mean by "God doesn't love everyone."

    ---------- Post added 23rd Jan 2016 at 02:09 PM ----------

    Let me say before starting on this there are several things I disagree with the Baptist/Southern Baptist church on so by no means should I be taken as a "representative" of that denomination or anything like that. However I can answer this question pretty well from the perspective of all churches.

    Really where the difference between the churches is whether or not they are "fundamentalist", meaning whether or not they hold to a strict/literal interpretation of the scripture. Personally I would advocate using the Bible more loosely because in reality it's not one book but rather a collection of books, and in fact there are more books outside of the ones in the standard Bible. The way I understand it is that after much debate on what books should be considered "canon" there was this one guy that had this list of books that should be considered canon and then eventually people were on board with that and that's how you get the modern Holy Bible. I used to know a good tumblr post about this but I can't find it ATM, if I ever do I'll certainly post it here.

    So my interpretation of the bible is that since it was made entirely by man and translated several different times and there was debate on what all was canon and all that, there is little in my mind that suggests it is the direct word of God. As such I think it should be used as more of a learning tool or bits of wisdom on how to live a Godly life than as a guidebook or a bunch of commandments. I would say a Godly life is live in a morally-correct way, and I personally don't see any sexual activity outside of rape to be immoral.

    With that said, many churches do not follow that line of thinking and they do treat the Bible as the strict word of God. Other churches (such as Mormons/LDS as you mentioned) have books outside of the Bible that they follow. The inconsistency that you see is very normal as each denomination is interpreting the Bible and Jesus' teachings in a different way.

    Now, on to the topic of whether or not the Bible talks about sexual immorality directly. Like I said there are many other books of the Bible outside the ones currently used however for the sake of simplicity we'll only be going through the standard ones.

    https://www.openbible.info/topics/sexual_immorality

    You'll notice that a lot of verses condemn sexual immorality but aren't clear on what that entails. The 3 things they seem to define as immoral are adultery, lust, and of course homosexuality. So if you were going to go with a strict fundamentalist approach then to be sexually moral you just have to not lust, be faithful, and not engage in homosexual activities. As far as I'm aware at the point in time when these were being written there wasn't really a concept of being gay and having homosexual attractions, so if you were to adhere to this as long as you didn't actually have sex with someone of the same sex and didn't lust, coupled with the idea that you need to be loving to all people, there is no reason that a gay person couldn't be a good Christian under these rules, in fact I see no reason why gays couldn't even marry as long as they didn't have sex. But you're focus is on the sexual activity itself, so from a fundamentalist point of view I would say the 3 rules are:

    1. Be faithful
    2. Do not lust
    3. Opposite sex only.

    But like I said from my non-fundamentalist point of view I see no sexual act as immoral aside from rape. This is because I can see very little ill coming from then as long as they're safe and consensual.
     
  5. warholwendy

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    Let me also say that the reason for marriage seems to be that the gold standard is celibacy but most people can not meet that so they should at least be monogamous. Make of that what you will.

    ---------- Post added 23rd Jan 2016 at 02:17 PM ----------

    (Great question btw Skaros, I keep having more to add to it)

    The other thing is also the culture of your area's attitudes towards sex. I live in an interesting area because "slut shaming" is prominent but it affects both men and women, generally they are not too fond of people having a lot of sex, it's not out of line (at least among teenagers) to use the phrases whore and manwhore. Here people like monogamy, and while a lot of them are against gay marriage they tend to have the whole "love the sinner hate the sin" attitude unless you're a jerk about it.

    ---------- Post added 23rd Jan 2016 at 02:21 PM ----------

    Again that's just my area. Any culture can have any views on the subject.
     
  6. warholwendy

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    Keep the questions coming my friends
     
  7. beastwith2backs

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    ( i like how you got inspired by danni's thread, i wonder which religion/ lifestyle/ mindset/ you name it is next LMAO)

    Ok i have a few questions:

    1. Why do the vast majority of christian groups feel the need to try to convert people to their religion? Like jehovah's witnesses knock on peoples doirs and ruin families and relationships, for example. And then there are whole tv channels dedicated to christian orogramming, isn't there supposed to be a seperation of church and state?

    2. Why do catholics have such wierd practices i can't find a biblical base for( 7 sacrements, child baptism, confession, statues of mary and jesus, the pope, etc:wink:?

    3. What's the point of the old testament being in a christian bible? It's really just the tanakh, the jewish acriptures, and it doesn't expand on christian theology, which is centered on jesus, if i'm correct.

    4. So, god sent the human incarnation of himself, to save the world from sin, and then kills the human incarnation of himself to save the world from dping bad things that god/jesus, doesn't like? So god killed himself badically to appease his own anger? Doesn't that sound absurd?

    5. If jesus is god, why did he pray to himself in the garden of gethesame? Why did he curse a fig tree for not bearing fruit, when he is god, and could have just made it bear fruit with his god powers? Also, why is he such a jerk in the gospels( insulting people of high stature, breaking the sabbath and then saying he is god's son which is a foreign concept in judaism, and throwing a temper tantrum at the temple, messing things up?)

    6. Why is paul the apostle such a anti semitic, mysogynistic, self hating jew?( he has says the jews are evil, and you only need jesus to enter heaven, and at one point he said that women are to keep quiet in church... For example)
     
  8. warholwendy

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    1. The idea behind modern Christianity is that you can only get into heaven by being saved. I disagree with that to some extent but that's the idea. When people try to convert others, in their mind they're doing you a service because they're helping you get into heaven. Now as for separation of church and state and the TV programming, shows on television have nothing or very little to do with the government, so that is still separation of church and state.

    2. That's just the way the church evolved I'm guessing. People practice their faith in different ways.

    3. Like I said in a previous answer the books of the Bible are there because at some point those books were decided as the standard for what books to follow.

    4. The reason (as given according to what I've read and heard) for Jesus dying was that before then people made sacrifices to God to make up for their sin, but obviously they couldn't ever make up for their sin completely because the only way to do that is to sacrifice a perfect human who had no sin of his own. Jesus is that person, killing him was God's way of being able to forgive man of their sin and allow them a way out of hell.

    5. Jesus and God as the same person differs depending on who you ask. I don't subscribe to that idea. As far as all that stuff there could be any number of reasons as to why he did those things or he was recorded as doing those things.

    6. Again I can't really explain -why- someone acts the way they do in the Bible. You will notice that bibles don't generally cite their sources, that's because outside of other written texts that might be discovered it's hard to know the exact truth of what happened.
     
  9. warholwendy

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  10. biAnnika

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    Let me recontextualize Secret's question for you, since it (surprisingly) seems to throw you.

    Why do Christian churches/Christians feed children (and adults) on the message that God loves everyone, and then (certain churches/Christians) feel no contradiction in telling people that God hates homosexuals (or various other groups du jour)?
     
  11. EnchanterForest

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    Do you know why christian sometime say "Hate the sin, not the Sinner", when being gay is part of them?
     
  12. QueerTransEnby

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    My Stances:

    1. In Christianity, we are told to "go and make disciples". While the traditional method has been figuratively beating people over the head with Bibles, many Christians including me feel that we are to give a reason for the faith that we have when questioned and be a good example. I believe we can only be good Christians when we love EVERYONE. This is a tall order. Honestly, the best way to show others is to be a friend first, then be available for questions when they are asked. Ultimately, it is up to the individual to make any choice. Whom you follow is a decision that can never be made by someone else or family. It is made by YOU.

    2. I am not Catholic. However, having taken many courses on Church history which inevitably tackles Catholicism, they value tradition as much as the Scriptures. Many of these practices involve tradition and/or Scripture or its interpretation.

    3. The point of the Old Testament(OT) is to show the lineage to Christ. There were many people who sacrificed for the existence of Israel. Without the Jewish people, we don't have Jesus. They were God's chosen people throughout this time. Like the New Testament, Old Testament regulations need to be read within the context and framework of the culture. Many Christians like me believe that these rules were to keep the population strong and numbers growing(hence the book of Numbers) to lead to the birth of Christ.

    4. Ok, this is going to get subjective and into my beliefs as I see them.... God sent his only Son so that the world could see His love for them. Without Jesus, as Christians, the majority of us believe we end up in hell. Without Jesus' sacrifice, we believe we have no salvation. I believe Jesus was fully God and man, aka the God-man. God sent Him to die so that we may not only find salvation but have an example of the selflessness that God commands of us. There was no anger involved from God; it was an extraordinary act of love. When Jesus' died, God could not look at Him we are told by the Scriptures.

    5. Jesus prayed to God the Father in Gethsemane. Because we believe he was fully God and fully man, Jesus had fear that we all face in everyday life. Jesus had frustrations but because he was fully God, he also had righteous anger. Jesus was angry at the Pharisees for belittling and excluding lepers and others from the church. Many of these "less thans" were healed by Jesus. Jesus intentionally took time to spend with them. He loves the downtrodden and hates oppression. Jesus had a righteous anger in the temple because some of Pharisees allowed it to be defiled. They allowed people to turn the temple into a marketplace when God calls us to use it solely as a place of worship.

    6. We need to read books of the Bible that include Paul in context. Culturally, women had a lower place in society 2000 years ago. As such, they were denied positions of power. Paul was fully human and had no divinity in and of itself. Like all humans, he was not perfect. He even admits that he "had a thorn in his flesh". Some have speculated Paul could have been gay, which I reject. However, we must remember that Paul was named Saul previously and ruthless. I don't recall Paul ever rejecting Jews. What he believed is that to be completely spiritually fulfilled, they needed to accept Jesus. Jesus was very clear that anyone, whether Jew or Gentile could enter the kingdom of God.

    ---------- Post added 24th Jan 2016 at 03:23 PM ----------

    Because people are blinded by their own prejudices. People are not perfect.

    Because so many of these people aren't gay and don't realize that it is part of one's identity, they can only see from their straight perspective. The above stance is half-assed in my opinion due to the fact that it tries to ride the fence. The Christian church is not perfect by any means. As a Christian, I believe your PERSONAL relationship is what matters most. I don't feel any specific church saves you.
     
  13. warholwendy

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    Ah that makes more sense.

    The books of the Bible were written before there was really a concept of being gay, homosexuality was really seen as more of an act. The natural need was still to have sex with the opposite sex so as to procreate. It is probable that the anti-gay verses in the Bible were to discourage homosexuality so that more people would reproduce and could sustain towns or villages or whatever. So then all this time homosexuality is treated as something to be avoided, then people start coming a long saying they want to exclusively engage in it, you can probably see where that would throw you. The entire anti-gay thing seems to be based on the idea that homosexuality is something that can be "cured", it is seen as an equal sin in their eyes. The hate for transgender and other groups likely stems from their association with gay people.

    ---------- Post added 24th Jan 2016 at 10:13 PM ----------

    The idea behind it seems to be that being gay is something that can be fixed or turned away from in the same way that you can turn away from say adultery or alchoholism. And that idea has been passed down through generations upon generations, it's really ingrained. I know a lot of us are quick to jump on people for being homophobic, but really imagine being taught one thing your whole life and then being told that you have to forget that or disagree with it. It's tough but sometimes you just have to agree to disagree on these things.

    ---------- Post added 24th Jan 2016 at 10:14 PM ----------

    Also thank you biguy for doing this as well because I believe having a second opinion is important.
     
  14. Fighter694

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    Please don't judge me too harshly for this.
    probably I'm not going to find an answer from a hardcore christian, but none the less,
    1) how do you guys cope up with science classes? A lot of things in science is very different and conflicting to what is there in the bible! For example, the whole creation of the world in a week and stuff!
    2) how literally do you take the bible? For instance do you or are you allowed to think that there are deeper meanings and a lot of verses just metaphors? Are you given the freedom to interpret it the way you want ?
    3) is Jesus the son of God or a human manifestation of God ?
    4) do you believe that Jesus actually came back ? Or do you think his coming back was just the reinforcement of faith in him amongst his believers and non believers
    5) have any of you thought of Jesus and the other significant figures as just enlightened humans who had a particular view or philosophy and hence being good orators influenced people's minds to believe in them and their miracles.
    I'm apologizing in advance if any of the questions offend anyone! Please forgive me :slight_smile:
     
  15. QueerTransEnby

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    You're welcome, md0123. I don't claim to have the answers on everything, but I am glad that many years of Christian studies pay off for something more than just my faith itself. :slight_smile:
     
  16. warholwendy

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    1. I believe in evolution. I see the creation stories in the Bible as more allegorical. Some of my more fundamentalist friends have disliked science class and 1 even refused to do any work related to evolution.

    2. Technically you're free to do whatever you want if you're a Christian but some interpretations are more popular with different groups. I myself see it as sort of a fictionalized history with a lot of advice.

    3. The Baptist way of thinking is that of the trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. In this way they are all one person so Jesus being the son is more of a representation of God, so technically both interpretations are correct under this thinking. Personally I find the idea of the trinity to be too personifying to be God. I see Jesus (and by extension other prophets such as Mohammed and even other religions entirely such as Buddhism) to be people that were called to lead people to heaven, and it is my belief that God was heavily involved with that. I don't think Jesus is the only path to heaven but I do see him as a very Godly individual that God likely held in high regard.

    4. Anything is possible.

    5. I would agree with that but I think those talents are very much God-given and what God wanted them to do.
     
  17. QueerTransEnby

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    Again, just my views...
    1. I cope just fine with science. For one, I do not buy young earth creationism. I believe in old earth creationism. I don't believe that many of the carbon dating methods some scientists espouse are correct. I tend to believe in old earth creationism, that the earth is approximately 100,000 years old.

    2. I take the Bible literally in some areas and figuratively in others. Are the verses in question highlighting basic life principles or written in the context of cultural mores? The truth is many say they take the Bible literally. However, Jesus said that if you sin to "cut your arm off", but it was a figure of speech. I urge people to ask themselves: what is the audience of the book in the Bible and what is Jesus trying to tell them? If someone reads the Bible with the audience of the book in mind, things flow much more easily. Certain denominations believe that their interpretation is the only way. However, the Bible makes it clear that we can have differences of opinions on several topics. You will see the important things such as the Trinity and love, repeated throughout the Scriptures.

    3. I believe Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit are one. The best example is to look at it like an apple pie. God is the crust, Jesus is the apples, and the Holy Spirit is the goo. So, they can exist separately, but they are also joined together to form the Godhead.

    4. Jesus has not come back yet I believe. No one knows the hour or the day. I believe that we need to be really careful with how Revelation is read. People have speculated in the past with who the anti-Christ is back to the time of Nero. Nero spells out 666 in the Greek. However, the people holding the belief that Nero was the anti-Christ were proven false. Any of these nutjobs who think they know who the anti-Christ, the date Jesus is coming back...all have been proven false.

    5. No, I believe in Jesus' divinity 100% because the apostles suffered cruel and unusual deaths in standing up for Him. There were many others who suffered horrible deaths at the hands of Rome before Constantine ruled. I don't believe Jesus nor that many people would die for nothing.
     
    #17 QueerTransEnby, Jan 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
  18. BryanM

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    As a nonchristian who grew up in a Christian household, I'd like to ask a question about a theological discussion I've found particularly convincing.

    1. As many evangelical christians have tried to label same sex relations as a sin, I actually think that the context of the Bible and the time in which it was written matters. Let's take for example the Leviticus verses about homosexuality... the Israelites (and humans in general) 2,000+ years ago were trying to make sure that their "tribe" would survive and prosper. The rest of the book of Leviticus was talking about things such as dietary practices, and other things its followers should follow to help repopulate the earth, and I think that the reason that same sex relations were so stigmatized during the time was because it didn't contribute to procreation at a point when human survival/procreation was a major obstacle. Now with humans living longer than they ever have and the running risk of overpopulation, isn't it fair to say that like other parts of the Bible relating to population control (such as no eating shellfish and pork) are now outdated and should be seen that way by more Christians? A follow up to this would be some of the other verses saying that same sex relations are a sin also deal more with cult rapes and pederasty, which were both illegal practices in their own right, and not dealing with homosexuality itself?
     
  19. QueerTransEnby

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    Is part of the OT outdated?
    1. Well, yes. The covenant was fulfilled when Jesus saved us according to most Christians believing in standard orthodoxy. The Pharisees were very strict about people following the law to a "T", and Jesus said that we are to understand the spirit of the law. Jesus said that we need the law no longer. "Behold, I have made all things new." But just because something is outdated doesn't mean we strike from the Bible I believe. This is where obedience comes in. The Israelites obeyed God. God wants us to listen to the Holy Spirit to be in obedience today. However, that doesn't mean following rules and regulations. This is why so many Christians sigh if you ask them, "why are you so religious?" Religion implies obligation, and most of us believe we are following God of our own free will and to enrich our lives. It's not worrying about God smiting us.

    2. As I mentioned earlier, those wanting to use Romans 1 and a few other passages need to understand the context. The Romans permitted the sex slave, pedophilia, and often used same-sex acts as service to their pagan gods. I believe Paul is condemning these activities. The key is to look at the Greek root meanings. So, I agree with your premise.
     
    #19 QueerTransEnby, Jan 24, 2016
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  20. Fighter694

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    Darwin was ridiculed and almost killed for what he believed! The Spanish Inquisition killed a lot of non believers in very cruel ways. Does that mean all these people were devine even though they didn't believe in the christian view of God, after all they died for what they believed? Many homosexuals have been tortured to death , death physical social and mental ! By Abrahamic constitutions, does this make them devine isnt it contrary to call them devine with respect to christian faith ?
     
    #20 Fighter694, Jan 24, 2016
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