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Homophobia...?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Funn, Jan 30, 2016.

  1. Funn

    Funn Guest

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    I am little curious about why and how this word became so common among LGBT? I mean, isn't the whole idea of LGBT that anyone can be whatever they want and no one gets judged for their beliefs/views/opinions/identity/lifestyle, etc...?

    Then how is it fair to use a word that implies that anyone that thinks being homosexual is wrong, is actually just afraid of homosexuality? I mean, is it fair of us to assume that they do not have a valid reason to disagree with us? Like a Christian for instance (like a real one, not a Westboro Baptist type of hate-monger). They (we, I , me) believe that being gay is a sin. Calling them a homophobe implies that their real issue with homosexuals is a fear of them. So what are they supposed to do? Deny their beliefs and say being gay is just fine? What about Christians like me? I am a lesbian, and I believe in Christianity. It is a big internal struggle with me, since I believe the Bible in its entirety and I will not pick out the parts that I don't like and say I don't believe them.

    The point of this question is not to address Christian beliefs about homosexuality. It is to address the use of the word "Homophobic". I only referenced Christians as an example of someone I think is being unfairly labeled as "homophobic".

    Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this.
     
  2. Cort

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    I think you're applying a definition to "homophobia" that is too narrow. That word doesn't just imply fear.

    Per Merriam Webster:

    When you include "aversion to" and "discrimination against", that word is applicable to quite a larger population.
     
    #2 Cort, Jan 30, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  3. nowewillnot

    nowewillnot Guest

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    words meanings change a lot, it isnt the fear of homos it is used as people who are just against it or unsupportive for what ever reason. i dont know what the term for someone that is legitimately phobic of homos would be, most people dont wear the full name of their traumatic phobias on their sleeves though and find other ways to reference it when needed.
     
  4. Funn

    Funn Guest

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    It is really the irrational part that I have a problem with. I apologize because I can see I did not make that entirely clear.

    Why are we assuming that any disagreement with our lifestyle must be irrational?
     
  5. nowewillnot

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    if someone told me they rationally hated jews and blacks i wouldnt really care to find out why. call it preservation of sanity
     
  6. Funn

    Funn Guest

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    But we are not talking about a race or religion. We are talking about a lifestyle. You could not choose to be white, if you were born black. On the other hand, you can choose not to have sexual relations with someone of the same sex/gender as you, even if you were born with a desire to do so. Being black, and being gay, are two far different things with very little in common. One is a physical quality, the other is a mental/physical/emotional desire that leaves us with a choice. It makes no difference whether it is natural or not, it is not being forced on us.
     
  7. Browncoat

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    I smell a troll.
     
  8. nowewillnot

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    arguable on the physical unchangeable aspect. i personally cant choose that i like women even if im not with one and their own lack of self-reflection, awareness, and common decency as a grown adult does not award them status as a protected class allowing them a free pass to degrade, protest, and vote against the way i am just because they again do not self-reflect and question their moralities or lack the awareness to do so. it allows them i suppose but it also allows me to call them out on it.

    im not touching the "gay gene" aspect of this but more and more facilities are putting lgbt status as a protected class because it is being found that people often can not help being lgbt so while conparing it to race and ethnicity is in questionable taste itnis not unfair or impossible. but regardless it is not my job to make them comfortable because of the way i feel when it does not harm them. hope this makes sense feel free to ask questions

    ---------- Post added 30th Jan 2016 at 02:12 PM ----------

    basically if they have an ounce of awareness and are willing to work with it, the dislike does not stay rational.
     
    #8 nowewillnot, Jan 30, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  9. Funn

    Funn Guest

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    If you don't have anything to say that is relevant to the conversation, please find somewhere else to make useless comments. You are welcome to actually comment on the topic if you would like though.



    I do not completely disagree with you. And, please understand that I am at least partially playing "devils advocate" here.

    I have to wonder though, how do we have the right to demand a fair say in our society, while shrugging off the views of those that disagree and simply calling them bigots? I mean, in their own mind, they are not just being hateful for the sake of being hateful. They honestly believe that steering society in a direction that is less accepting of LGBT lifestyles is a good and decent thing to do. Why do they not deserve the same consideration that we are demanding?

    Also, I obviously do not think that people can choose who they are attracted to. I am a lesbian. We can always choose who we will become romantically and sexually involved with. There are plenty of people out there that have to suffer under a burden of desires that they can never satisfy for the greater good.

    Again, playing devils advocate for the sake of working it all out.
     
    #9 Funn, Jan 30, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  10. wannahavechange

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    I think I asked this along time ago as well. I asked why do we call homophobia it's name. Isn't a phobia an irrational fear. If I could kiss my boyfriend and make people cringe in free and run... I'd have so much fun. I think another term would be nice for it.
    It's just like that phrase coming out of the closet. It no idea why some lgbtqa use it.. I should probably Google this XD. I'm just like.. what closet?. I think we should use the phrase not ready yet. Although I never had to come out of the closet, I just told peeps I like men.

    ---------- Post added 30th Jan 2016 at 02:28 PM ----------

    I also find it funny that when some lgbtqa call people homophobic they also throw in the word racist too... I think you can't equate the struggles of lgbtqa to that of my people's (African American )struggles. Ijs
     
  11. Plattyrex

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    I didn't choose to be gay either. Am I just supposed to lie and pretend I like women? Wouldn't that be a sin too?
     
  12. Funn

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    I never said that people choose to be gay. I said you can choose who you are sexually/romantically involved with.

    Also we are not discussing whether something is a sin or not, we are discussing whether people are being unfairly labeled as "homophobic" for believing that being gay is wrong. Whether they think it is a wrong for being a sin, or any other reason.
     
    #12 Funn, Jan 30, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  13. nowewillnot

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    many times in life, people that thought they were doing a good thing grow older and depending on their empathy and open-mindedness realize it may not have been good or is at least far more complicated. im sure nazi eugenics had good intentions, pro-lifers have good intentions, racial separatists/purists have good intentions, crusaders had good intentions, etc etc bad people arent just born, they make bad decisions rooted in what they believe is right. but that doesnt make it right. i use extreme example to help demonstrate the point that good intentions are not always so and every person has the ability to realize that if they are open to it and the perspectives of others. good intentions does not excuse a person from choices that harm others.

    ---------- Post added 30th Jan 2016 at 03:00 PM ----------

    if a few sentences from the book of my religion dictate my decision to harm other people, that is on me and i do not get a free pass to not face any consequence or penalty for that decision. i have the ability to change and reflect on it. entire denominations have been carved out of christianity based on how they interpret, believe, and choose to follow the different words of the bible. you can be christian without being harmful to others, you have to be willing to recognize your influence and other perspectives instead of just doubling down and crying "war on christianity"
     
  14. Funn

    Funn Guest

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    Couldn't people against homosexuality make the exact same argument about our attempts to secure a place for LGBT in society? That our intentions are good, but the results are not...?
     
  15. Browncoat

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    Oh, forgive me, usually when someone says something so patently ridiculous such as to refer to homosexuality as a "lifestyle" they are generally a troll. I forgot that there are occasionally simply ignorant people out there.




    Please, they amount to the same thing. That's not but a cop out.
     
    #15 Browncoat, Jan 30, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  16. Funn

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    So if Christians should have to change their beliefs to suit yours? How is that not the exact definition of intolerance? Also, the Bible does say that homosexual acts are a sin, it never instructs us to do anything but love people, regardless of their sin. That does not mean pretending that everything everyone does is good and acceptable if you believe it is not.

    ---------- Post added 30th Jan 2016 at 06:05 PM ----------

    So you literally just came to this thread to insult people and have nothing relevant to say at all...? And you are not a troll? Get on topic, or go away.
     
  17. Invidia

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    Well, some opinions deserve neither respect nor acknowledgement. Homophobia is inherently evil and should never be accepted as a valid opinion.
     
  18. Funn

    Funn Guest

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    That sounds so intolerant. Who are we to judge who deserves respect and who doesn't?
     
  19. Browncoat

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    You already have your answer to your misinterpretation of the word "homophobia" here. When people are accused of being "homophobes" they are (usually, in the common use of the word) not being accused of having an "irrational fear" of homosexuality, they are being accused of discriminating against homosexual individuals.


    There are then several ways you can go from there as to your claim that we shouldn't shun homophobic behavior:

    1. Homosexuality is essentially innate, and in no way did people "choose" to be gay. Therefore, discriminating against someone for being gay is absurd and ought to be viewed as abhorrent.

    or,

    2. Regardless of the innateness of homosexuality, such acts do absolutely nothing to harm others. Therefore, discriminating against someone for engaging in those behaviors is absurd and ought to be viewed as abhorrent.




    I myself prefer the second one. In either case your support for them is at best misplaced and at worst disturbing.
     
    #19 Browncoat, Jan 30, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  20. Funn

    Funn Guest

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    I get that some people are offended by this whole conversation. I have already been called an ignorant troll, by someone who obviously did not even read the whole thread. Since I stated multiple times that I am attempting to play devils advocate, which means I making arguments that I do not necessarily agree with. I am trying to work out the details and understand both sides of these views.

    If you are actually refusing to even consider the thoughts and opinions of others just because they clash with yours, you have a problem with being intolerant. There is literally no better way to be intolerant. I am not saying I agree with all of the arguments I made, I am actually saying that I DO NOT agree with all of it. What I am saying is, we are hypocrites if we insist on having a fair say, but do not give the exact same courtesy to everyone, whether we like them or not.


    ---------- Post added 30th Jan 2016 at 06:17 PM ----------

    Wow... please look up the expression "devils advocate" then come back. It isn't that hard to understand...
     
    #20 Funn, Jan 30, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016