Empty Closets Coming Out Resources and a Safe Place to Chat
Welcome Forum Chat Room Resources News Members

Go Back   Empty Closets - A safe online community for gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender people coming out > General Chat > Chit Chat

Chit Chat General discussion of topics of interest to LGBT people of all ages.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12th Mar 2016, 07:26 PM   #1
Mr. Brightside
Full Member
 
DreamerBoy17's Avatar
 

Gender: Transboy
Orientation: Cuties
Out Status: Everyone and their mother
Location: United States
Age: 16
Posts: 1,657
Join Date: Aug 2014


Trans people left in the dust

I feel like this isn't something addressed very often, so I think it needs to be talked about. It seems like recently, but especially since the marriage equality ruling in America last summer, a lot of LGB people are ready to be done with activism and feel as though it's the end of the movement, and now that we all have equality we can go off happily into the sunset.

But we don't all have equality, and it's becoming more and more painfully obvious. Time and time again, whether through the Drop the T petition, the countless trans women of color murders last year, the new bathroom bills seeking to set back our rights, and the often difficult processes to even begin transition show that no, we aren't done with equality yet. This isn't to blame the LGB part of the community, of course. I know a large amount of them support trans rights. It's the fault of the majority white cisgender heterosexual people in charge of society continuing to bully trans people.

Yet, there seem to be an increasing number of those in our community that are ready to, frankly, leave behind the transgender people now that they are in a more privileged position where they no longer need the support of trans people. Prejudice exists in a group as diverse as the LGBT community, and it's starting to show. It's hurtful to me to see the lack of understanding and acceptance among those with similar struggles. We shouldn't be trying to split up right now, not in times like these with all of these wack job Republicans trying to force back all the progress we've made.

Trans people stood with LGB people since the very beginning and Stonewall. We cheered on your victories because you know what? They weren't your victories. They were our victories, as more than a community, as a human society. Equality shouldn't be conditional. We're all just humans that want our rights, and this is not the time to be splitting up when we need to be uniting. Just my opinion. I am not looking to start some heated debate, just wondering if anyone feels the same way.
__________________
You can call me Cody, he/him pronouns ^_^
~Living life one day at a time~
DreamerBoy17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Mar 2016, 08:19 PM   #2
Banned
 
Gender: Female (trans*)
Orientation: Mostly straight
Out Status: Leading a double life
Location: Far above the clouds, gazing deep below the Earth
Age: 21
Posts: 4,026
Join Date: Mar 2015


Re: Trans people left in the dust

I totally feel the same way. There has been too much deplorable behavior showcased from left and right, up and down, and just from everywhere, toward trans people, lately. Hopefully this trend will reverse. It's understandable that many LGB people breathe safer now, but as human beings, and as part of our community, there has been a lot of disappointing behavior lately. But also, many are stepping up to say that the T is an important part of our beautiful LGBTQ+ constellation. To those that do, I raise my glass! And also, I ask that you make your voices heard - yours are the ones we need right now.
Marriage equality ends nothing - it's just another stepping stone on our path to freedom and justice!
Invidia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Mar 2016, 08:52 PM   #3
Supreme Commander of the Gnerd Army
Full Member
 
Kasey's Avatar
 

Gender: Female (trans*)
Orientation: People
Out Status: Out to everyone
Location: The Commonwealth of Massachusetts
Age: 35
Posts: 7,473
Join Date: Dec 2013


Re: Trans people left in the dust

I won't beat a dead horse. We are at least 10 to 15 years behind.
__________________

"No one should have to live in darkness" - My two best friends
Kasey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2016, 07:13 AM   #4
EC Addict
Regular Member
 
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,531
Join Date: Mar 2014


Re: Trans people left in the dust

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerBoy17 View Post
I feel like this isn't something addressed very often, so I think it needs to be talked about. It seems like recently, but especially since the marriage equality ruling in America last summer, a lot of LGB people are ready to be done with activism and feel as though it's the end of the movement, and now that we all have equality we can go off happily into the sunset.
I think we need to be careful to see traditional activism (i.e. public marches/protests etc) as the be all and end all of achieving equality.

In reality a lot of change is what goes on "behind the scenes" - people changing opinion and influencing society (be they straight, out or closeted).

Activism is not just what you see on TV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerBoy17 View Post
Time and time again, whether through the Drop the T petition
The calls to drop the T are controversial but are understandable to an extent. Gender and sexuality are often two very different things and so many LGB people do feel uncomfortable that their gender is questioned as a result of misunderstandings caused by the linkage between LGB and T.

Really the connection between LGB and T is more a result of similar (but not identical) prejudices experienced by the groups, rather than similarities between their existance. These differences in experiences and needs are naturally going to cause some friction now and again.

Ultimately I think it is necessary the two are linked; trans people are a much smaller group and so benefit from the increased community (think "safety in numbers"). There will inevitably be times though where trans people are best to represent trans voices though, as again because they are distinct groups LGB people are not always "experts" on this. Actual trans voices can be a lot more powerful too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerBoy17 View Post
the countless trans women of color murders last year
I think we need to be realistic here. Of course trans people and trans POC are murdered, but outside of certain countries (which are the exception, like Brazil), trans people are not murdered at a rate any higher than average compared to any other demographic (in fact for whatever reasion statistically speaking trans people typically have a lower than average rate of murder).

Of course many of those murders are down to transphobia and we can work to eliminate this to reduce what murders do happen even further. In that sense trans murders are easier to tackle than many other murders which can have harder to tackle causative factors (money/greed, education/employment/gang crime, love/revenge/crimes of passion, mental illness/insanity).

What I do think we need to be careful of here is not getting carried away. Much like how activists exaggerating female wage gap statistics to further their own agenda do little to help instances where there is actual economic disparity (in fact they hinder it), we must treat facts with care and consideration.

We should focus on the fact that transphobia is common in trans murders (which is shocking enough) rather than creating a good intentioned but ultimately false panic of a trans murder epidemic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerBoy17 View Post
It's the fault of the majority white cisgender heterosexual people in charge of society continuing to bully trans people.

Yet, there seem to be an increasing number of those in our community that are ready to, frankly, leave behind the transgender people now that they are in a more privileged position where they no longer need the support of trans people. Prejudice exists in a group as diverse as the LGBT community, and it's starting to show.
I think the issue is largely down to representation and visibility. Historically there was little trans visibility, less than LGB even due to them being a much smaller group). Now we have much better technology and media (TV, film, the Internet) so I think we will begin to see things get better. The internet in particular will help as essentially it can act like a megaphone letting even the smallest voices be heard.

I do think a barrier that perhaps causes hesitance in LGB or straight people throwing themselves as fully behind trans rights is the lack of understanding. LGB and straight people do have a bit more in common (with their sexuality being on the same spectrum, or different sides to the same coin), and is perhaps easier to understand (as sexual attraction can be very "visible" physiologically speaking with erections and what not!).

As such transexuality can often seem mysterious or alien as a concept, particularly when transitions which can appear so drastic or painful are factored in. Again though I think visibility and getting trans voices out there will help with this "fear of the unknown".

Last edited by 741852963; 13th Mar 2016 at 07:15 AM..
741852963 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2016, 07:28 AM   #5
EC Addict
Regular Member
 
Matto_Corvo's Avatar
 

Gender: Male (trans*)
Orientation: Gay
Out Status: Some people
Location: South Carolina
Age: 25
Posts: 2,846
Join Date: Apr 2015


Re: Trans people left in the dust

Quote:
Originally Posted by 741852963 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerBoy17 View Post
I feel like this isn't something addressed very often, so I think it needs to be talked about. It seems like recently, but especially since the marriage equality ruling in America last summer, a lot of LGB people are ready to be done with activism and feel as though it's the end of the movement, and now that we all have equality we can go off happily into the sunset.
I think we need to be careful to see traditional activism (i.e. public marches/protests etc) as the be all and end all of achieving equality.

In reality a lot of change is what goes on "behind the scenes" - people changing opinion and influencing society (be they straight, out or closeted).

Activism is not just what you see on TV.



The calls to drop the T are controversial but are understandable to an extent. Gender and sexuality are often two very different things and so many LGB people do feel uncomfortable that their gender is questioned as a result of misunderstandings caused by the linkage between LGB and T.

Really the connection between LGB and T is more a result of similar (but not identical) prejudices experienced by the groups, rather than similarities between their existance. These differences in experiences and needs are naturally going to cause some friction now and again.

Ultimately I think it is necessary the two are linked; trans people are a much smaller group and so benefit from the increased community (think "safety in numbers"). There will inevitably be times though where trans people are best to represent trans voices though, as again because they are distinct groups LGB people are not always "experts" on this. Actual trans voices can be a lot more powerful too.



I think we need to be realistic here. Of course trans people and trans POC are murdered, but outside of certain countries (which are the exception, like Brazil), trans people are not murdered at a rate any higher than average compared to any other demographic (in fact for whatever reasion statistically speaking trans people typically have a lower than average rate of murder).

Of course many of those murders are down to transphobia and we can work to eliminate this to reduce what murders do happen even further. In that sense trans murders are easier to tackle than many other murders which can have harder to tackle causative factors (money/greed, education/employment/gang crime, love/revenge/crimes of passion, mental illness/insanity).

What I do think we need to be careful of here is not getting carried away. Much like how activists exaggerating female wage gap statistics to further their own agenda do little to help instances where there is actual economic disparity (in fact they hinder it), we must treat facts with care and consideration.

We should focus on the fact that transphobia is common in trans murders (which is shocking enough) rather than creating a good intentioned but ultimately false panic of a trans murder epidemic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerBoy17 View Post
It's the fault of the majority white cisgender heterosexual people in charge of society continuing to bully trans people.

Yet, there seem to be an increasing number of those in our community that are ready to, frankly, leave behind the transgender people now that they are in a more privileged position where they no longer need the support of trans people. Prejudice exists in a group as diverse as the LGBT community, and it's starting to show.
I think the issue is largely down to representation and visibility. Historically there was little trans visibility, less than LGB even due to them being a much smaller group). Now we have much better technology and media (TV, film, the Internet) so I think we will begin to see things get better. The internet in particular will help as essentially it can act like a megaphone letting even the smallest voices be heard.

I do think a barrier that perhaps causes hesitance in LGB or straight people throwing themselves as fully behind trans rights is the lack of understanding. LGB and straight people do have a bit more in common (with their sexuality being on the same spectrum, or different sides to the same coin), and is perhaps easier to understand (as sexual attraction can be very "visible" physiologically speaking with erections and what not!).

As such transexuality can often seem mysterious or alien as a concept, particularly when transitions which can appear so drastic or painful are factored in. Again though I think visibility and getting trans voices out there will help with this "fear of the unknown".
I sorta free with all this
__________________
INFP-T
Ryan Alexander
He/Him/They
Matto_Corvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2016, 08:55 AM   #6
Banned
 
Gender: Female (trans*)
Orientation: Mostly straight
Out Status: Leading a double life
Location: Far above the clouds, gazing deep below the Earth
Age: 21
Posts: 4,026
Join Date: Mar 2015


Re: Trans people left in the dust

Quote:
Originally Posted by 741852963 View Post
(in fact for whatever reasion statistically speaking trans people typically have a lower than average rate of murder).
Source?
Invidia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2016, 11:41 AM   #7
EC Addict
Regular Member
 
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,531
Join Date: Mar 2014


Re: Trans people left in the dust

Quote:
Originally Posted by Invidia View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 741852963 View Post
(in fact for whatever reasion statistically speaking trans people typically have a lower than average rate of murder).
Source?
Basic maths.

In 2015 you had about 20-25 trans murders occur in the US. The US typically has a (rather shocking) overall murder rate of 13,000+ people (in 2014 the estimate was at 14,249).

If typical estimates of 1% of the population being trans were being used you would presumably expect to see 142 trans murders a year (using 2014s estimate) if things were proportional, or higher if trans people were murdered at a higher than average rate.

And then if you factor in not all trans people are visible or open about their gender (either due to not beginning outward transition or transitioning and passing well), AND that not all trans murders will be down to transphobia (for example a trans person may be murdered randomly, due to drugs/money, in a unrelated fight) then the number of transphobic murders is probably smaller.

So no, contrary to what many activists say, trans people are not necessarily more likely to be murdered when you look at statistics. That is not to say it isn't problematic or we shouldn't counter it, not at all - like I've said transphobic murders are one type of murder we know how to tackle (i.e. by fighting transphobia at the source).

Last edited by 741852963; 13th Mar 2016 at 11:47 AM..
741852963 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2016, 11:51 AM   #8
Sometimes quiet is violent
Community Facilitator
 
BradTheCat's Avatar
 

Gender: Transmasculine (FtM)
Orientation: Queer (biromantic/panromantic gray-a)
Out Status: No longer lurking in the shadows.
Location: Northeast Ohio
Age: 24
Posts: 12,500
Join Date: Jun 2011

Tournaments Won: 4

Re: Trans people left in the dust

Quote:
Originally Posted by 741852963 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Invidia View Post

Source?
Basic maths?

In 2015 you had about 20-25 trans murders occur in the US. The US typically has a (rather shocking) overall murder rate of 13,000+ people (in 2014 the estimate was at 14,249).

If typical estimates of 1% of the population being trans were being used you would presumably expect to see 142 trans murders a year (using 2014s estimate) if things were proportional, or higher if trans people were murdered at a higher than average rate.

And then if you factor in not all trans people are visible (either due to not beginning outward transition or transitioning and passing well), AND that not all trans murders will be down to transphobia (for example a trans person may be murdered randomly, due to drugs/money, in a unrelated fight) then the number of transphobic murders is probably smaller.

So no, contrary to what many activists say, trans people are not necessarily more likely to be murdered when you look at statistics. That is not to say it isn't problematic or we shouldn't counter it, not at all - like I've said transphobic murders are one type of murder we know how to tackle (i.e. by fighting transphobia at the source).
This is blatant misinformation. For one thing, you are assuming that all of the murders that have been reported are the only ones. This is not the case. There is not a designation for transgender murders. The ones that you hear about are often times because friends and family will speak out after their deaths. What about those trans people that do not have supportive friends and family? Well, they are buried under their birth names, and their preferred name is forgotten.

There is also the fact that the transgender community is a fairly small (and in many areas close) community. So one incident of violence impacts us all because it makes us scared that something is going to happen to us.

Also, with increased publicity of the transgender community, there has been increased violence.
__________________
The tide of history only advances when people make themselves fully visible.
-Anderson Cooper

BradTheCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2016, 11:56 AM   #9
I'm Not Here
Regular Member
 
Michael's Avatar
 
Gender: Yes
Orientation: Bisexual
Location: nearest large city or state
Posts: 3,020
Join Date: Aug 2014


Re: Trans people left in the dust

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasey View Post
I won't beat a dead horse. We are at least 10 to 15 years behind.
Depends on how you see it, and where... I'd say between 20-30 years behind on the civilized US and most of civilized Europe. Rest of the world... 40, 50 years behind.

I agree with you, horse is dead
Michael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2016, 01:37 PM   #10
EC Addict
Regular Member
 
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,531
Join Date: Mar 2014


Re: Trans people left in the dust

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradTheCat View Post
This is blatant misinformation. For one thing, you are assuming that all of the murders that have been reported are the only ones. This is not the case. There is not a designation for transgender murders. The ones that you hear about are often times because friends and family will speak out after their deaths. What about those trans people that do not have supportive friends and family? Well, they are buried under their birth names, and their preferred name is forgotten.
Of course there may be others not named, but that only supports my point. We cannot say there is "definitely" an epidemic of transphobic murders when there are no statistics. And activists referring to such trends are only referencing publicised cases.

Looking at the statistics we have alone there is nothing to say transgender people are definitely murdered at a higher rate than average. It is speculative and until this is proven we should utilise the hard facts and focus on what we can learn from the horrific cases that we do know have happened, rather than going of "maybes".

Reality is more powerful than theory IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradTheCat View Post
There is also the fact that the transgender community is a fairly small (and in many areas close) community. So one incident of violence impacts us all because it makes us scared that something is going to happen to us.
Well this is a fact but certainly does not conflict with anything I've said. Where have I said the issue of transphobic murders is not important, I haven't. I'm just saying we should focus on the definite not the maybes.

This is similar to the 1 in 3 women has been raped and/or sexually assaulted statistic that was thrown round by some feminists. Now women are of course being raped, and a single woman being raped is already one too many. But by throwing a hollow (and very poorly researched) statistic round like that the actual impact and attention on the issue is weakened. Why? Because people just discount it and with it the issue that deserves attention.

Aswell I think your stated point here is very important. Trans people hearing about violence is naturally traumatic - surely it is enough to hear about actual cases rather than creating a "boogeyman" of an epidemic that may or may not exist? That to me is almost scaremongering. Now a few homophobic murders have happened where I live - and we work towards justice and tolerance. As a community we don't scare ourselves with the notion that there are hundreds of other homophobic murderers lurking around or gay victims that have slipped through the system. I don't think that would be helpful at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradTheCat View Post
URL="http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2015/11/more-transgender-people-have-been-murdered-2015-any-other-year-record"]Also, with increased publicity of the transgender community, there has been increased violence.[/URL]
Maybe this comes back to your earlier point though. Maybe with more publicity more trans people are open about their transexuality, thus more deaths are reported referencing gender rather than any actual increase in violence.

---------- Post added 13th Mar 2016 at 12:39 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
Depends on how you see it, and where... I'd say between 20-30 years behind on the civilized US and most of civilized Europe. Rest of the world... 40, 50 years behind.
I think that is probably spot on.
741852963 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2016, 02:28 PM   #11
Bro to Everyone
Regular Member
 
EnchanterForest's Avatar
 

Gender: Genderfluid Af
Orientation: Hearts <3 not Parts :)
Out Status: Meh, everyone I guess.
Location: England (From NZ)
Age: 15
Posts: 183
Join Date: Jan 2016


Re: Trans people left in the dust

The thing is that I have found is that no one knows what it is unless they are an RE teacher or related to the trans/queer community. I have to explain on a regular basis what trans is, and it took me ages to find out everything myself. This is probably because it isn't really talked about in school or anything.
I find it hard to just get by at school now days because everyone is always asking me question, which therefore lead me to panic. I feel sorry for the people who went through this maybe only 2-3 years ago because that would have been hard. What needs to happen is that more people need to educated about the trans community.
__________________
Forest
All the pronouns, cos like why bother correcting people?
EnchanterForest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2016, 03:37 PM   #12
EC Addict
Full Member
 
Calf's Avatar
 

Gender: Male
Orientation: Gay
Out Status: Out to everyone
Location: UK, Leeds
Age: 33
Posts: 474
Join Date: Feb 2016


Re: Trans people left in the dust

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerBoy17 View Post
I feel like this isn't something addressed very often, so I think it needs to be talked about. It seems like recently, but especially since the marriage equality ruling in America last summer, a lot of LGB people are ready to be done with activism and feel as though it's the end of the movement, and now that we all have equality we can go off happily into the sunset.

But we don't all have equality, and it's becoming more and more painfully obvious. Time and time again, whether through the Drop the T petition, the countless trans women of color murders last year, the new bathroom bills seeking to set back our rights, and the often difficult processes to even begin transition show that no, we aren't done with equality yet. This isn't to blame the LGB part of the community, of course. I know a large amount of them support trans rights. It's the fault of the majority white cisgender heterosexual people in charge of society continuing to bully trans people.

Yet, there seem to be an increasing number of those in our community that are ready to, frankly, leave behind the transgender people now that they are in a more privileged position where they no longer need the support of trans people. Prejudice exists in a group as diverse as the LGBT community, and it's starting to show. It's hurtful to me to see the lack of understanding and acceptance among those with similar struggles. We shouldn't be trying to split up right now, not in times like these with all of these wack job Republicans trying to force back all the progress we've made.

Trans people stood with LGB people since the very beginning and Stonewall. We cheered on your victories because you know what? They weren't your victories. They were our victories, as more than a community, as a human society. Equality shouldn't be conditional. We're all just humans that want our rights, and this is not the time to be splitting up when we need to be uniting. Just my opinion. I am not looking to start some heated debate, just wondering if anyone feels the same way.
I wish everything you had said here wasn't even an issue but I understand why it is. The real problem is the way that legal systems work around the world. There should be no need to change the law every time a minority fights for it, it should be changed to provide equality for everyone on the first amendment to the law. Because the legal system rarely works like that, it is our responsibility to fight for everyone's rights, not just our own.
Don't forget that in many countries the law even treats Ls Gs and Bs differently as well as Ts
__________________
The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is now.

Last edited by Calf; 13th Mar 2016 at 03:38 PM..
Calf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2016, 07:49 PM   #13
Mr. Brightside
Full Member
Threadstarter
 
DreamerBoy17's Avatar
 

Gender: Transboy
Orientation: Cuties
Out Status: Everyone and their mother
Location: United States
Age: 16
Posts: 1,657
Join Date: Aug 2014


Re: Trans people left in the dust

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calf View Post
Don't forget that in many countries the law even treats Ls Gs and Bs differently as well as Ts
Yep, I wasn't meaning to start a pity olympics here either, but I was mainly referencing to America in particular.
__________________
You can call me Cody, he/him pronouns ^_^
~Living life one day at a time~
DreamerBoy17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Mar 2016, 03:52 AM   #14
EC Addict
Full Member
 
Irisviel's Avatar
 
Gender: Female (trans*)
Orientation: Bisexual
Out Status: Some people
Location: EU
Age: 26
Posts: 417
Join Date: Jan 2015


Re: Trans people left in the dust

While in my country there is no equality yet for the LGB, the pattern is similar - acceptance for sexuality increases at much faster rate than in cards to gender. Probably because sexuality is easier to understand and explain.

I had friends tell me that my being bisexual is fine, because I'm "normal", not one of those transvestite deviants. Being transgender in the closet it's heartbreaking, but it is also the reality. Acceptance for different sexuality, quite simply, grows much faster and it is as true for the US as for almost any other country.
Irisviel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Mar 2016, 05:43 AM   #15
Banned
 
Gender: Female (trans*)
Orientation: Mostly straight
Out Status: Leading a double life
Location: Far above the clouds, gazing deep below the Earth
Age: 21
Posts: 4,026
Join Date: Mar 2015


Re: Trans people left in the dust

Quote:
Originally Posted by g4rret View Post
I had friends tell me that my being bisexual is fine, because I'm "normal", not one of those transvestite deviants. Being transgender in the closet it's heartbreaking, but it is also the reality.
That sounds really frustrating. And those friends don't seem very nice...
Take care of yourself, honey. x
Invidia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Mar 2016, 12:03 PM   #16
Sometimes quiet is violent
Community Facilitator
 
BradTheCat's Avatar
 

Gender: Transmasculine (FtM)
Orientation: Queer (biromantic/panromantic gray-a)
Out Status: No longer lurking in the shadows.
Location: Northeast Ohio
Age: 24
Posts: 12,500
Join Date: Jun 2011

Tournaments Won: 4

Re: Trans people left in the dust

Even if we do not have "reliable data" articles like this , and this show that there is still an issue with violence. We may never be able to get reliable numbers on transgender murders, since many are just buried as their birth sex. That's no reason to deny something that is clearly an issue though.

Just because there is not a reliable source of data is not a reason to argue that transgender people are "safer". In fact, it's probably the opposite because of the hatred that we face even from within the LGB community.
__________________
The tide of history only advances when people make themselves fully visible.
-Anderson Cooper

BradTheCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
All people are a little bisexual? Anonymous Anonymous Sexual and Romantic Orientation 126 31st Mar 2016 03:34 PM
Looking for a relationship: simpler than you think Owen Family, Friends, and Relationships 49 29th Jul 2015 02:39 PM
Dumb questions about trans men / FTM mangotree Gender Identity and Expression 22 27th May 2014 06:07 AM
I am tired of Drama, and I don't want to hear about guns killing people! ARGH! Deaf Not Blind Chit Chat 27 17th Dec 2012 12:57 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright (c) 2004-2015, Empty Closets Community Services
The Empty Closets name and logo are registered trademarks of Empty Closets Community Services

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21