Christianity and homosexuality

Yea, the fundamental point is that no one is hurt by two consenting adults being together so being gay is ok.

I have heard storys of bitchy lesbian couples who hate men and adopt a boy. Then teach that boy that there is something wrong with him and are then abusive. But I think thats the minority.

 

What part of consent do these people not understand and that article of course its gonna have some bias if it's written by a xtian *sigh* and whole no love arguement yeah explain to me why there's a 50% divorce rate among straight couples?

---------- Post added 19th Mar 2016 at 03:02 PM ----------

Oh and straight people get aids to? And sex isn't the only way to contract aids.

 

You know that in pre-christian Europe there were many homosexuals, and they were respected? In Oriental religions(like Hinduism or Buddhism) the idea of the third sex is considered divine. You can Google it and you'll see that I'm not lying.
In my opinion, christianity and the rest of abrahamic religions destroyed humanity.

 

I think your first mistake was going to Yahoo Answers with a serious question, intent on getting an intellectual or remotely serious answer in return lol.

I have seen and participated in plenty of these debates and there's always this big void that can't be answered.
--
Person A: If God hates gay people, then why did he allow it? He's the strongest being in history surely he had the power to stop it.

Person B: It's freewill. People choose to be gay.

Person A: A guy can't force an erection; therefore it can't be a choice. Did you choose to be straight?
--
It's all pretty ridiculous. I had no idea that what two people do could matter so much to the world. Almost like me refuting a friend for preferring strawberry ice cream over vanilla or chocolate. Who cares??

But as far as the Bible goes, that whole book is eff'd up and overflowing with contradictions and hypocrisy that only Mankind could create. For example, in Genesis it's made clear that God created two beings, Adam and Eve, who had two sons that got married...but where in the heck did these two random broads come from?? (In terms of how the Earth was populated, I also tend to find myself wondering, if God accepted incest? And if he did why would homosexuality be wrong?) Thus is reason for why whenever I encounter people who want to speak on God's behalf by saying that He hates Homosexuality, I shake my head for two reasons; 1) God swore his love for man. 2) I don't feel it in my heart.

And lets not forget that once upon a time interracial couples, integrated schools, integrated restaurants, etc. were all noted as "unnatural"...so this isn't nothing but history repeating itself with a different set of victims.

 

I don't even like to consider conversations like this a debate with opposing arguments, because there shouldn't even be a debate. But there is an argument, and here's my opposing argument. Same-sex marriages aren't without issues, but neither are straight marriages. There isn't a single problem present in gay marriages that isn't also present in straight marriages.

Same goes for same-sex parenting. There are many children with parents who constantly fight, with absentee mothers and fathers, abusive parents, distant parents. A child with two mothers or two fathers has twice as much as a child with only one mother, or only one father.

A debate about homosexuality and religion can't be done with logic. Religion isn't about logic, it's about believing in something without needing proof.

I have a very religious cousin who is very active in promoting "traditional marriage". According to her, she feels her marriage with her husband is threatened by same-sex marriages. Somehow, same-sex marriage lessens the validity and significance of her own marriage to her husband.

I also have an aunt who, even though one of her closest friends is a lesbian, doesn't support the "homosexual lifestyle", but according to her, it's okay to be gay. It just isn't okay to act on it.

These beliefs come directly from the church. I believe in God, but I don't believe in the church. I strongly believe that homosexuality cannot be proved "immoral" with any logical argument. It's impossible. God and the church do not mix for me, they don't mix at all. The church is created by human beings, flawed human beings with a history of repressing minorities.

 

There is no mention of homosexuality in the 10 Big Ones (The 10 Commandments), nor does Jesus Himself ever discuss the subject in the Gospels. What miniscule mention there is of homosexuality in the remaining Bible is stated by some scholars as misinterpreted. If you believe God is Love and you love another human being, how then can God not love you? John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever (that means EVERYONE) believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." Any Christian who argues otherwise is not exhibiting Christ-like qualities. Remember, let he who is without sin cast the first stone and NO ONE is without sin! End of discussion!

 

I don't think there's an reasonable evidence besides the distortion of religion to find homosexuality wrong. One could say it's not natural as it doesn't lead to procreation, but that argument crumbles if you find clothing, etc to be okay since that's not natural.... But there's no real way to say it's morally wrong, imo.

 

Yahoo Answers... Not a place that is, what shall we say, particularly ripe with intelligence?

As per your question, if homosexuality can be "proven wrong" without the Bible, I think not. Keep in mind however that the Bible is the standard of morality for Christians, so what it says goes. I'm not telling you what to believe or how to interpret it - that's up to you. Personally I don't think one should believe in something if it tells you to reject logic and reason in it's favor. As for Christianity, I think it can be a perfectly sensible religion - but there are those who will mis-use and misinterpret the message to fit their own agenda. That is why the big debate riles on about God hating or not hating gay people.

In the end, I believe that homosexuality is perfectly natural (in fact it is evident in hundreds of other species aside from humans) and so long as such relationships are formed with respect and love, there isn't a problem. This is coming from a fundamentalist Christian, where "fundamental" means exactly what is said in Matthew 22 - that all Christians are called to (a) love God and (b) love all people. The rest is subtext and interpretation.

 

And In my opinion, they didn't really. Where would the idea of "humanity", seeing humans as a whole, be without it's origins in abrahamic religions, particularly, the book of isaiah in the hebrew bible. Abrahamic religions were the first to say that human life is precious and has meaning. I'm not saying that there isn't messes up stuff in the bible or the qur'an( OH HELL NO) what i'm saying is that most of it is positive, some of it is negative, and what really really REALLY matters is how people interpret things, not what a book says.

Also, LGBT-like people have existed in abrahamic traditions. most verses talking about homosexuality negatively, are usually just refreing to homosexual sex, not actually BEING homosexual.

 

Unnatural implies it's not in nature, which is false.

Gay people exist across cultures and have existed throughout time.

 

As far as I'm concerned, strict, pure, Christians technically shouldn't even eat shrimp. (It says so in the Bible!)

It's frustrating that nobody can actually give a secular argument about homosexuality. And when people do, the argument is fallacious. For example, the one about a child being entitled to a father and mother is based on cultural conditioning, not objective logic. In fact, studies have shown that fighting and arguments among non-straight couples are significantly fewer than those of straight couples, so being lesbian or gay actually helps children's emotional states.

Also, the AIDS argument shouldn't be used. Straight couples are equally as likely to get STDs as non-straight couples are. Essentially, it's a matter of personal responsibility.

---------- Post added 20th Mar 2016 at 12:10 AM ----------

As far as I'm concerned, strict, pure, Christians technically shouldn't even eat shrimp. (It says so in the Bible!)

It's frustrating that nobody can actually give a secular argument about homosexuality. And when people do, the argument is fallacious. For example, the one about a child being entitled to a father and mother is based on cultural conditioning, not objective logic. In fact, studies have shown that fighting and arguments among non-straight couples are significantly fewer than those of straight couples, so being lesbian or gay actually helps children's emotional states.

Also, the AIDS argument shouldn't be used. Straight couples are equally as likely to get STDs as non-straight couples are. Essentially, it's a matter of personal responsibility.

 

Besides religion, there really is no other valid argument that can be used against homosexuality.

The unnatural argument is false because homosexuality is practiced among many species in nature. Also, even if it is unnatural, so what? Driving cars is unnatural, but we still do it and doesn't make it wrong.

Also the STD argument falls flat because heterosexual couples are just as capable of spreading and transmitting STDs. It is unsafe sex, not homosexuality, that causes STDs.

 

If I can add, and I always say this to people who, quote on quote, say; "Sexuality is freewill." I don't remember waking up one morning or thinking midway through the day: "Hm, I'm going to get discriminated and bullied today because why not?"

Straight, Gay, Lesbian, Pans, Asex, etc don't decide. Its like asking some straight person "Turn gay." or "Convert to something else." They will give the same answer as of every other person with whatever sexuality which is "I can't, because it doesn't work like that."

I had a friend who was Christian, and even he said; "nothing is wrong with it. Its even found in multiple species." In my eyes, personally, strict Christians seem to forget about the "Love thy neighbour" quote, which is pretty heartbreaking.

 

This is one of the things that rubs me the wrong way regarding Christianity, especially with where it's going today; and I hope I don't offend any Christians here. Too many people cherrypick what's fine to use and what's not.

Religious people will utilize a vague verse from Leviticus to demonize gay people (to me, the verse in question is more of a sexist one to say that if you put a man on the level of a woman, then you've done something wrong--not saying we need to stone gay people to death), but will go out of their way to distance themselves from other laws in Leviticus like dietary restrictions, no tattoos, and many others (all while saying those laws don't apply anymore because of the NT).

It's so unfair, and pretty disgusting that people use their religion (which the core meaning is to be Christ like and be kind to others) to hurt others and forget that Jesus never said anything and homosexuality. I never understood how a system whose message is to love everyone is now a hate machine; beyond the atrocities that have been committed in the name of that religion for hundreds of years.

 

Because I'm an incredibly annoying person who likes to argue things I don't necessarily believe in.

One might argue that since homosexual couples cannot reproduce, in a country with low birth rate and risk of their ethnicity dying out, homosexual couples might need to find an opposite-sex partner to be able to reproduce.

What would another person say back to someone who thought this?

 

First of all Hinduism and Buddhism aren't Oriental religions, they are of Indian origin. Yes the third sex and homosexuality has been described in great detail including roles such as 'top' and 'bottom'. They even go ahead to describe how people are " born" gay or as third sex, even though its not scientific they atleast believed that they were born that way. There are sculptures out there in kajaraho temples depicting homosexuality and even beastality . there are stories of demigods who are lgbt. There is even a story of sex change in the great epic mahabarata .But anyway so the basic point here is Hinduism is one of the oldest religions and if it has such detailed description and a level of acceptance about lgbt then it means back then, before the Abrahamic religions it was pretty prevalent and accepted. As the Abrahamic religions rose to power and colonised the world they spread anti lgbt ideas and this has gotten acculturated so much that throughout the world people adopted anti lgbt ways. So it clearly shows how homophobia is a construct of man and not homosexuality!

I don't understand what people mean when they say a child needs a mom and a dad. Can't two dads nurture and emotionally provide well enough like mom? Cant two mom's protect children like dads? This is sexism! It's like saying you need a guy and a girl to make a relationship work. If you're referring to gendered role models. Gay couples aren't bring up their children in absolute isolation? A daughter of gay dads is going to have grandma's and aunts or even teachers to look up to and learn! She may even relate to the feminity in her dad's. All children need are loving parents and a stable home! If you can provide that then why not?

Oh and unnatural? Please turn around and look at the animal kingdoms! There are so many examples. This is not just lusty sex between rams. It's love and partnerships like that seen between male black swans who even raise their young together! Sometimes I realize how judgemental we are when I look at the animal kingdom!

And about aids. Yes there is a large prevalence amongst gay men. Yes anal sex poses higher risk. But hey promiscuity and unprotected sex are the problem not homosexuality!

 

In answer to your main question: yes, you can argue against homosexuality on secular grounds. Conservatives do it often when they talk of "family values", "society", or defend traditional gender roles. Usually involves some form of social conservatism with a nationalist or communitarian outlook. Then, there's the argument from "it's not for procreation so nope", or the comparison to bestiality.

Do they depend on religion? Not as such. Are they in any way convincing? Hell no XD