I've been hearing some arguements from the anti-trans side of the whole NC law debate and - forgive me if I seem a little illiterate on the whole issue, It's just hard for me to keep up without feeling triggered, of course for our T folks so I try to avoid reading too much about it - but yeah... I was thinking, if people want to fear-monger about old guys pretending to be transgender just to prey on young girls, well then they might as well add desperate cisgender woman who, aren't necessarily pedophiles, but would kidnap little girls just so they'll have them as their own child. The door is open for them to do such a terrible act now is it not? I've heard of a few stories of woman who were not pedophiles, but still kidnapped little girls just so they can be their child (or they did it to help out a pedophile who they know). So, I mean, the door is open This whole thing is just so stupid because even if an old guy dressed up as a transgender female and tried to abduct a little girl, would he even make it out of the store or restaurant with her? There'd have to be at least a few customers, and a few workers who would try to stop an abduction scenario like that. Not to mention that mothers- if they're stupid enough to let their little daughters go in the washroom alone, would be waiting outside the door anyway. Plus I'm sure a predator would want to avoid the possibility of another woman or two coming in the washroom and witnessing his attack on whichever woman he's preying on. I just....I dunno. At this rate, the whole fear-mongering that is going on in America could very well one day, even outright ban frigging sex altogether because "oooh...what if the top doesn't stop when the bottom says he/she want to? Can't have that can we? Let's ban sex altogether! LOOL. Sadly I can see this as a possibility Sorry this is like a long ass paragraph, but I just thought maybe someone here would understand where I'm coming from.
I think the (mostly male) lawmakers have penis on their minds too much. I think this is how it boils in their minds:
Take a look at this article from ABC News, "Sexual Assault and Domestic Violence Organizations Debunk 'Bathroom Predator' Myth." Spoiler A coalition of over 200 national, state and local organizations across the U.S. that work with sexual assault and domestic violence survivors are objecting to the justifications given by lawmakers to forbid transgender people from using the bathroom of their choosing. These organizations asked for “support of full and equal access for the transgender community," according to a statement on Thursday by a coalition under the advocacy group National Task Force to End Sexual and Domestic Violence Against Women. This outcry from hundreds of organizations comes after North Carolina passed House Bill 2, a law that bans people from using bathrooms that don't match the sex indicated on their birth certificate. There is currently no explanation of how the law should be enforced, and "lawmakers proposing these measures could implement enforcement that is a grave and unconstitutional intrusion into people’s privacy," Chase Strangio, staff attorney at the ACLU Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender Project and a transgender man, told ABC News today. Lawmakers in North Carolina who support HB2 say it prevents putting women and children in vulnerable situations in public bathrooms and changing areas if men exploit the law and pose as transgender women so they could sexually assault or engage in inappropriate behavior in these areas. Critics call that reasoning the "bathroom predator myth.” “Over 200 municipalities and 18 states have nondiscrimination laws protecting transgender people’s access to facilities consistent with the gender they live every day,” according to the coalition. "None of those jurisdictions have [sic] seen a rise in sexual violence or other public safety issues due to nondiscrimination laws. Assaulting another person in a restroom or changing room remains against the law in every single state.” Strangio also noted that allowing transgender people to use the bathroom corresponding to their gender identity “doesn’t increase in any way public safety incidents.” There are two central falsehoods to the legislators’ reasoning, Strangio said. One is "that transgender people aren’t real and [are] inherently dangerous.” The second falsehood is that without HB2, "non-transgender people will take advantage" of the situation -- for example, a man could dress up as a woman to enter a woman's bathroom. “All this does is to heighten gender policing of everyone by law enforcement, and individual people who do not conform to gender norms are targeted," Strangio said. John Rustin, president of the North Carolina Family Policy Council, a group that supports HB2, denies that the bill seeks to discriminate against the trans community. “The bill is important because it protects the privacy and dignity of woman and children,” Rustin told ABC News today. He added that by allowing transgender people to go into the bathroom or locker room that corresponds with their gender it would “allow men and potentially predators to enter into those facilities with ill intentions. It’s a common sense privacy and safety law. Men go into men’s restrooms and women go into women’s restrooms.” Laura Palumbo, communications director at the National Sexual Violence Resource Center, told ABC News that people who are looking to sexually assault someone will go into a bathroom regardless if it corresponds to their gender. “It’s problematic to conflate in examples when a person, who is not transgender identified, is trespassing in a restroom exploiting that position to harm others,” she said. The lawmakers’ justification does not take into account that men can also be victims of sexual assault and harassment in public bathrooms and changing rooms. Transgender men who have had to use female restrooms due to such laws “experience a ton of violence in women’s restroom and are told they don’t belong there,” Strangio said. “It usually leads to people not using the bathroom.” Palumbo said she believes people “must understand the facts about sexual assault,” adding that in 8 out of 10 cases the victim already knows the person who sexually assaulted them, citing Justice Department statistics. However, 64 percent of transgender people will experience sexual assault in their lifetime, she said, citing a study by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force and National Center for Transgender Equality. “All the data and all the evidence shows protecting transgender people only increase public safety,” Strangio said. He said laws like House Bill 2 imply “that fundamentally people just don’t think of transgender people as humans, and they try to erase trans people from existence.” But he added that the “reality is that most everyone has shared a bathroom with a trans person and nothing has happened. It is a mundane experience of how it is whenever going to the bathroom.” The irony is that in all of this bigoted bullshit, look at the stats: 64% of trans people will experience sexual assault in their lifetime. We want to rape people? Really? We just want to pee without being beaten up, spat on, groped, or yelled at. But apparently that is too much to ask from some.
Doesn't this actually make it easier for predatory men to enter women's bathrooms and do whatever it is they do. Previously a pervert/rapist would have had to go to a huge effort to disguise themselves and pass as female, to avoid being spotted in the women's bathroom. Now all they have to do is walk in, if anyone says you shouldn't be in here, you're a man, they can simply reply "I'm trans, I was born female so the law says that even though I'm really male, I have to use this bathroom". The only real solution is a no bathroom law, banning all public facilities to 100% eliminate sex perverts from the world... :eusa_doh:
Ya, between the racism of Arizona and the anti-transness of North Carolina... I dunno... Basically, the only way that these laws make "sense" is that the people pushing them are perpetuating rape culture. In the physical location of Reality, people mostly don't get raped in public bathrooms by strangers. They get raped mostly at home or in living areas either by family members, romantic partners, or acquaintances. Basically, public bathrooms are the "new" dark alleys. (And by the way, most rapes didn't occur in those either.)
hmm this is troubling I guess one solution is to have a 1 person restroom (1 person at a time) that would fix it but it would be very costly to make enough for multiple people
I think Pret Allez may have been referring to the "Show Me Your Papers" law in Arizona, but I may be wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_SB_1070 As to HB2, it actually frightens me as it has also began to police cisgender people as well who cannot "prove" their gender if they do not have identification on them, and this has started to result in anyone who does not fit binarist standards of male/female, cis or trans, to be kicked out of restrooms. Please do not mistake me for trying to make this all about cis people either, but I find it absolutely disgusting that this law is beginning to backlash against so many people in North Carolina, and the trans community there must be getting the worst of it, and that's why I support its full repeal. I'm going to Camp Pride over this summer as well and it is in Charlotte, and even I am afraid that if I decide to present as especially GNC one day that I may be attacked by people as well, so I have made it a priority to only use gender neutral bathrooms during my time there.
The whole thing is ridiculous. If some pedophile wants to go after a kid, they are extremely likely going to go after a kid they know, who they can groom beforehand and then get ALONE, rather than some kid in the public restroom. With other women on guard as well as (hopefully) Mom or other guardian watching, AND the ability of the kid to practice "stranger danger" and scream, I just don't see the big risk. If it's going to happen, its more likely to be mom/guardian (aka someone the kid knows) who assaults the kid.... and this policy has no influence on that. The whole situation just seriously grinds my gears. People are making jokes about it now too... I had a guy at work ask me where the trans restroom was. Me with my lack of humor and relatively GNC appearance assumed he was looking for a safe place he/his adolescent son could head, and pointed him to the sadly gendered facilities... nope, he awkwardly forged ahead with some punchline about special restrooms and the "mentally ill" (by which he meant... me). :bang: Just... stop.
These laws make less and less sense the more you think about it... I suppose that's how it passed, lack of deep thought. But when everyone's finally equal, what will those republicans do?
I think my favorite quote about HB2 came from SNL Weekend Update last week. I believe it was along the lines of: "Let this be a warning: If you're a pedophile, and you were born a man, you can't go into the women's bathroom and attack girls. You have to stay in the men's bathroom and attack boys." Seriously, the whole thing boggles my mind with its absurdity.
What you mean guys? The HBC laws make total and complete sense! They have absolutely nothing to do with trans people using the bathroom, is all.
This... They actually have a lot of internal consistency, but it has nothing to do with the stated reasons. While the general public is morally deficient, they aren't that morally deficient. So they have to be lied to... Also, on the Arizona comment, Bryan was correct, and this is what I meant by it precisely:
