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Is it racist to not acknowledge the achievements of an ethnic group in arts?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by edy, May 22, 2016.

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  1. edy

    edy
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    More specifically in films? Especially if the two groups share the same language?
     
    #1 edy, May 22, 2016
  2. tyro

    tyro
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    This is very vague.
     
    #2 tyro, May 22, 2016
  3. Shadstack

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    What?
     
    #3 Shadstack, May 22, 2016
  4. edy

    edy
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    Ok, let me clarify that. "FilmAffinity" is the spanish-speaking equivalent of IMDB, like that website -which also has a version in English- you can create your own lists. Every year since 2000 they come up with the "best 100 films of year" list... and you barely see brown latin americans being represented in such list. They blatantly ignore important, critically acclaimed, commercially successful films made in latin america by brown people. 2013 was one of the most important years for latin america with such films as "Gloria" (99% on rotten tomatoes), "Not instructions included" AKA the highest grossing spanish speaking film of all time. They are simply nowhere to be found here, on this very eurocentric list. The website was created by spanish people (spandiards):

    https://www.filmaffinity.com/en/listtopmovies.php?list_id=104
     
    #4 edy, May 22, 2016
  5. tyro

    tyro
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    Thats more specific. IMO that isnt racist.
     
    #5 tyro, May 22, 2016
  6. edy

    edy
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    The Spanish Academy Award, just like any other important film award, is also very euro-centric
     
    #6 edy, May 22, 2016
    Last edited: May 22, 2016
  7. Argentwing

    Argentwing
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    Film awards in general are crap. The same complaints are raised about the Oscars in the US, how it's all an old boy's club and not truly about the art.
     
    #7 Argentwing, May 22, 2016
  8. edy

    edy
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    I agree ^

    Just a bunch of euro-supremacist giving awards to each other
     
    #8 edy, May 22, 2016
  9. Chiroptera

    Chiroptera
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    Honestly, while i agree with Argentwing that these awars aren't really trustworthy, i don't think they are racist.

    To me, what matters is the art itself. Is it good? Then great. It doesn't matter if it was made by a white or black person.

    Of course, if we have proof that they are rejecting black artists because they are black, then we have a huge problem. But saying that X% of the artists in that list are white/black doesn't mean much, as the number doesn't represent the content of the movies.

    Just as in the majority of topics about skin color, i repeat: Of course, if we have a group clearly rejecting someone because of the skin of that person, then we have a huge problem, that must be investigated as quickly as possible. However, i'm not sure if that is the case here.
     
    #9 Chiroptera, May 22, 2016
  10. gravechild

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    I don't know what it's like in Brazil, but almost every representation on Mexican media is of a Eurocentric variety. Plenty imported from places like Argentina and France. You see "stereotypical" Mexicans, but often as maids and beggars (which sadly, isn't too far off from reality).
     
    #10 gravechild, May 22, 2016
  11. edy

    edy
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    OK We are talking about FILMS here. Don't mix things up. And I'm not talking about representation (which is also important),

    Those two things (representation and tv) should be discussed in another thread that I am planning to make in the future
     
    #11 edy, May 22, 2016
    Last edited: May 22, 2016
  12. Domosuke

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    Hollywood (Imdb, rottentomatoes, academy awards, golden globes etc.) is racist.
     
    #12 Domosuke, May 22, 2016
    Last edited: May 22, 2016
  13. Kodo

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    The reason why IMDB's top 100 doesn't contain many foreign films is probably because of this:

    Film originated as an American art form, and as such, American (aka Hollywood) produces the most and often the highest quality movies every year. I'm not saying that only American films are good, just that there are *more good ones* because of opportunity, money, etc. found in Hollywood. Also, IMDB and the Oscars are largely geared toward English-speaking audiences. Consider the following hypothetical...

    Spain releases 201 movies, France releases 302 movies, the UK 506 movies, and the USA 1078 movies in one year which are being chosen from for an awards ceremony. Let's also say that on average, Spain and France have $500,000-$1,000,000 budgets for their movies, UK has between $2-8 milion, but the US has $15-45 million per movie. Now when the panels of critics are looking at films, which country's work do you think would be overrepresented in this equation? That's right, the USA.

    Is this because the critics are being racist and purposefully shunning the art put out by Spain, France, and the UK? No. It's because America makes more movies than any other country, it's favourite art form is movies, and it has by far the most money to put out high caliber movies. So when "the best" are being picked from an international pool by likely-American judges, the US will be overrepresented and thus all the actors who play in American films (in the past mostly white people, but more recently becoming diversified) will be in that list.

    It's not racism, it's probability.

    The above hypothetical figures are not based on fact and are only a made-up illustration, not meant to cause offense.
     
    #13 Kodo, May 22, 2016
  14. Andrew99

    Andrew99
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    No.
     
    #14 Andrew99, May 22, 2016
  15. awesomeyodais

    awesomeyodais
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    As far as the Spanish Academy Award, do you mean the "Goya Awards"? Those are for movies made in Spain, not in Spanish (they do have a category for Best Spanish Language Foreign Film, which would include Central/South America).

    Same reason the UK have BAFTA Film Awards that don't include a lot of American movies that are in the same (well, close enough) language.

    My resort-tourist-level-Spanish doesn't let me navigate that site too efficiently, but do the content of the lists vary whether you pick USA or Spain or Mexico or Argentina or Chile?
     
    #15 awesomeyodais, May 22, 2016
  16. edy

    edy
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    The BAFTA awards are surprisingly Americanized. You can see plenty of American movies, actors and directors being acknowledged for their work. Hell, they even have a SEPARATE category for BRITISH FILMS, in their own academy awards. Besides that, both Americans and British are mostly white people. Most white americans are basically 96% of british/irish descent (Irish movies also qualify for the "best british film of the year award"). The American Academy Award also loves to spread their love to british actors and directors whenever they can (Colin Firth, Helen Mirren, Peter O'toole, Judy Dench, Christian Bale, Danny Boyle, Anthony Minghella, etc). It seems like both get along just fine... at least when it comes to film industry

    The relationship between Spain and Latin America is a little more complex than that. Most people in Latin America are not white and were never considered white in despite of mixed inbreed throughout the years. So, racially, we are not the same. While it's true that they have a separate category for "foreign spanish speaking films", the country with the most awards (16 vs the runner up Cuba with only 4) is Argentina, the whitest latin american country (and they are very proud about this fact which is great).

    The most mestizo/indigenous latin american countries are Bolivia, with zero awards, Peru with 1 awards, and Mexico with 2. Colombia, which was recently nominated for Best foreign language film by the Oscars, got snubbed by the Goya Awards. I hope it's only a technicism and they make up for it the next year.

    Sometimes, the Spanish academy would nominate a Latin American film in main categories because the Spanish film industry would help to co-produce the movie. That has only happened three times: with "Pan's labyrinth" (a Mexican movie about the Spanish civil war) and two argentine movies starring white actors (The Secret of their Eyes... the original not the Julia Roberts remake and Wild Tales).

    These are hardly the only three movies that Spain has helped to co-produce in Latin America, but they only chose those starring white actors of european descent. So, in short, yes, they nominated a Mexican film for Best picture of the year. But that movie was about the Spanish civil war and starred nothing but white actors, obviously. In my book, that is cheating.

    ---------- Post added 22nd May 2016 at 09:38 PM ----------
    No, it doesn't. It's the same list whether you are using the English version or the Spain version
     
    #16 edy, May 22, 2016
    Last edited: May 22, 2016
  17. edy

    edy
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    remember, everything IS racist, sexist and homophobic
     
    #17 edy, May 23, 2016
  18. thepandaboss

    thepandaboss
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    ...please tell me you're joking. Also, it would generally help to have evidence to support your points instead of just going on rants about how problematic everything is. Just saying.
     
    #18 thepandaboss, May 23, 2016
  19. edy

    edy
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    So you don't have a problem at all about the fact that people of color are never acknowledged for their work in film industry?
     
    #19 edy, May 24, 2016
  20. Ram90

    Ram90
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    Also having big budget doesn't mean everything when considered for awards or the like IMHO. India makes comparatively the same number of movies or even more per year when compared to Hollywood and there are some movies which have bigger budgets than some Hollywood big movies too. That doesn't mean those movies get adequate awards in the equivalent awards section here in India or Internationally.
     
    #20 Ram90, May 25, 2016
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