Who else thinks that "assimilation" and "melting pot" are racist/xenophobic terms?

Re: Who else thinks that "assimilation" and "melting pot" are racist/xenophobic terms

^ this particular section of the forum is just for general discussions. Everything doesn't HAVE to be LGBT-related.

As for the question of assimilation... it really depends on the situation. Every kind of culture has to grow/develop/change, otherwise it dies or at least lives an extremely limited existence. And when you think about it, how were these cultures formed in the first place? As an Indian, I know that much of what I know as culture came from a mix of all kinds of influences from different parts of the world, and that was even before British colonisation. You can't live an isolated existence within your own culture, unless everyone immediately around you is also part of it. When you move to a place with different customs, you adapt and they adapt. Ideally it's a more-or-less equally two-way process but that is likely skewed.

I've always found "melting pot" kind of an iffy term though. It seems like something that the dominant culture likes to say to show off about how diverse and awesome they are. I get the idea and I don't think it's intentionally malicious but that phrase does bother me a little.

 

Re: Who else thinks that "assimilation" and "melting pot" are racist/xenophobic terms

Assimilation:
The process whereby a minority group gradually adopts the cultural characteristics of the majority

Melting pot:
A place where immigrants of different races or cultures form an integrated society.

These as neither racist nor xenophobic terms. These words exist to describe a natural process of cultural melding throughout history.

It is akin to saying, "the eastern wombat evolved into what we now know as the blue-tailed wombat due to the change in habitat, et cetera" where the term evolve describes a natural biological process. It isn't saying "the eastern wombat was trash so it had to adapt" or "the blue-tailed wombat was better so it extincted the eastern wombat." No, it is simply saying that things change. Change is the essential process of all existence, and many words exist to describe that process. That doesn't make these words bad. No words are bad in-of-themselves, rather it is how they are used (or misused) that make them so.

Instead of becoming angry with the terms themselves, perhaps you should seek to educate people on how they use language. Like, if I hear someone that I know calling something/someone "retarded" I tell them not to use that word in that way, because it's an abuse of the term and disrespectful.

The term "melting pot" is much like the term "sum." No one gets angy about the word "sum" in maths, because it just means the results of several numbers coming together. It isn't the same as any individual number nor better, but a culmination. Melting pot is quite neutral. Like, I can say "America is a melting pot" which means that this country has only come to be what it is by all rich variety of many cultures together to make a new thing.

 

Re: Who else thinks that "assimilation" and "melting pot" are racist/xenophobic terms

I don't think hiding your sexual orientation counts as assimilation. The word means to absorb or incorporate. It involves new ideas and a changing mindsets. The way I see it, forcing people to hide their sexuality is a form of oppression. It's not quite the same.

 

Re: Who else thinks that "assimilation" and "melting pot" are racist/xenophobic terms

No, not at all. Different cultures and races exist. Sometimes multiculturalism isn't easy to achieve, and that's a simple fact. These terms are adjectives that help explain a situation such as what I previously described. Not everything is racist or xenophobic.

 

Re: Who else thinks that "assimilation" and "melting pot" are racist/xenophobic terms

Do you just make these threads because you like to try and stir everyone up? Because I don't see you starting anything with any intent to learn, share your point of view with support and logic, or even make a lot of friends with stuff like this.

If you're going to operate from the point of view that everything is racist, you better start backing up your points.

And for the love of god, stop mewling and lashing out at people who don't agree with you if you really don't have an argument to support. Frankly, it just makes you look like a troll or a terrible, terrible devil's advocate.

I have no doubt you're sincere about what you believe in and sometimes you mean well but your conduct's completely aggravating.

 

Re: Who else thinks that "assimilation" and "melting pot" are racist/xenophobic terms

Agree completely with thepandaboss.

edy, if you operate under Anita Sarkeesian's principle of "Omnia sunt Rassismus", then isn't the implicit answer to the question in the OP yes? Then whence comes the discussion?

No, those terms are not inherently racist. Forced assimilation is obviously racist, since it involves annihilating someone's culture and forcing them to adhere to the culture of the dominant people (such as what happened to the Native Americans or Australian Aboriginals). But assimilation in general is not racist; often it cannot be prevented. And it isn't necessarily a bad thing: not all aspects of a person's culture can be maintained when moving to a new country. You cannot have honor killings or FGM in the United States, no matter how much a part of your culture they are. Those you are simply going to have to abandon. Just as I would not be able to live exactly the way I wanted to in Iran or Pakistan.

When imposed on people, yes, assimilation can be racist. As a natural consequence, no. Though depending on the person, specific aspects of culture, and the overall climate of the nation, it may or may not be desirable.

 

Re: Who else thinks that "assimilation" and "melting pot" are racist/xenophobic terms

I'm with Libertino here although not only do I find the words "melting pot" not offensive, I actually like it. I think it's good to see people doing whatever they like regardless of the culture it originated from. It's like people standing up to traditional gender roles (not quite but it's comparable). I don't hear as many complaints that girls with short hair are "stealing" male culture or that guys wearing make-up are "stealing" from women.

If that's the case, then I'm offended that America appropriated my German heritage by making computers lol

 

Re: Who else thinks that "assimilation" and "melting pot" are racist/xenophobic terms

I don't think assimilation has to mean abandoning your culture - but adopting certain aspects of your host culture. That's what happens - Muslims born in the UK retain their religion but most aspects of their life are essentially Western. Like Libertino said, 'natural consequence'. These people aren't forced to adopt Western culture to varying degrees, it just happens over a number of years.

I don't think there is anything wrong with saying certain cultural aspects are undesirable as well. For example, a good majority of Muslims think homosexuality is wrong - punishable by death, even, because this is what their religion teaches. This isn't something to defend, it's something to berate. Ethnic minorities who are gay are more likely to face homophobia from people of their own race, because they tend to be more religious. So this is one aspect where assimilation is needed sooner rather than later.

 

Re: Who else thinks that "assimilation" and "melting pot" are racist/xenophobic terms

I do NOT think that those are offensive terms.

Assimilation is just something that happens naturally when an immigrant and his/her descendants settle in the U.S for generations.

I basically agree with Pandaboss.
Assimilation is simply a way to adapt to your new surroundings. It doesn't have to be just about immigrants; when we get a new job, we have to assimilate into the new work culture and environment. Of course, it shouldn't be forced. We've tried that in the U.S with our Americanization movement, it just caused resentment toward the U.S people.

Descendants also go through assimilation. We are far more likely to learn and adapt to the customs and culture at a far more rapid rate than immigrants.

 

Re: Who else thinks that "assimilation" and "melting pot" are racist/xenophobic terms

Assimilation isn't "betraying your people or culture". When you're born you don't sign a contract saying you have to remain loyal to every bit of culture you're raised with, it s just a natural thing that happens sometimes. If nobody assimilated and just lived 100% the way they were raised, that'd be pretty ridiculous. Also you're holding non-white people to a different standard than white people by saying that.

 

Re: Who else thinks that "assimilation" and "melting pot" are racist/xenophobic terms

A melting pot is the exact opposite of xenophobia and racism. It is a situation where foreigners can come together and find common ground. They don't have to "betray their culture" (which only arose because of some form of isolation back in the day) in order to contribute and assimilate. The latter word really only means get along with everyone else and not make a little enclave where no one else is allowed.

Is this a case of actively looking for something to be offended by? If you can have a poster of a British band, hit a pinata at your Mexican neighbor's birthday party, and have Italian food for dinner, it's a melting pot.

 

Re: Who else thinks that "assimilation" and "melting pot" are racist/xenophobic terms

Why is it that when you're from a particular minority background that you're 'betraying' it when you pick up the culture of the place in which you live? As a British Indian who considers himself 100% British and a couple percent Indian (the only Indian thing about me is my skin colour), I find it stupid how everyone gets offended when different cultures and ethnicities mix. People can be whoever they want, identify with whichever culture they find comfortable. You don't have to stick with the culture of your ancestors and family. I don't relate to the Indian culture whatsoever, I'm not going to force myself to.

The appropriation shit is bull in my opinion. As long as people aren't taking the piss they should be able to use any part of any culture, what's the problem with it? We're trying for equality not more segregation. You have to be a certain colour or have grown up a certain way to wear this or practice that? It really is stupid.

 

Re: Who else thinks that "assimilation" and "melting pot" are racist/xenophobic terms

I don't think treachery is really a thing like you say it is here... like a lot of people move abroad and after having lived somewhere else than where they first came from for thirty years, mostly forget about their origins (if they're not in contact with it because of family, interest, or whatever, of course). I don't think that makes them a 'traitor' or anything, it's just... stuff kind of... happens... things occur... and phenomena change.

From the start I don't entirely understand your question either. Do you mean that the people who do the assimilating and who are blending into a new culture are the racist ones, or the ones who claim that's what's happening when someone goes through that process...?

I'm 60% sure that you're fundamentally for multiculturalism in your own right here... but also 40% not so sure?

 

Re: Who else thinks that "assimilation" and "melting pot" are racist/xenophobic terms

This is what I was thinking. The OP was being racist by saying this I think...

 

Re: Who else thinks that "assimilation" and "melting pot" are racist/xenophobic terms

Well, if you can claim the term "melting pot" is racist without proving real evidence, someone else could just as easily claim you're racist. Not doing a good job of explaining your point, kiddo.

 

Re: Who else thinks that "assimilation" and "melting pot" are racist/xenophobic terms

Suggesting that people cling adamantly to their distinct cultural box, refusing to sample bits of others for aversion to "assimilation" isn't exactly racist, but completely backwards and harmful to unity as humans.

I don't think the sort of mixing you're against has anything to do with "claiming something as their own." Why shouldn't a practice of one culture, which happens to be really cool, be enjoyed by others? It's like saying that since the Xbox is an American invention, we are the only ones who should be allowed to play it guilt-free. Other cultures will have to invent their own video games, but not based too much on the idea of computation, since the idea of a calculation device either goes to the Englishman Charles Babbage, or to whomever invented the abacus. It's somewhat unclear so best not risk it to avoid offense.

^^That's the logical conclusion of what you're proposing. I hope I was able to show you a little of why it's a bad idea to be so against cultural mixing.