It's NOT Socialism!!!!

[Swamp56]

As some of you may know, I'm one of the more conservative members on this forum; limited government and the complete abolition of many of the government programs that United States Government has is typically my ideals, as well as the fact that I was a McCain supporter and heavily supported Mitt Romney before he dropped out.

I am part of the Republicans Club in my school, and I currenty disagree with many of Obama's policies and legislation. I watch Fox News and I like Bill O'Reilly and I agree with Rush Limbaugh on certain issues.

That being said, I have been listening to many people start to preach againt socialism and saying that the United States is entering a period in which socialism is going to dominate and rule our lives. They say Obama is the devil and is going to turn us upside down and that he's going to destroy the world as we know it.

First off, it's NOT socialism. HOW IS THIS SOCIALISM? With talks of nationalization of the United States Banking System, these things have been said. Obama has already said that this is not going to happen. We have privatized health care, privatized businesses, privatized oil companies, privatized retail sectors, privatized insurance companies, and a privatized industrial sector.

Second, socialism preaches state ownership of business, property, and social environments. This is NOT happening in the United States. If there is one thing that will never happen, it's state ownership of property in this country. It's impossible to do...too many people would uprise and protest this.

What we are going through is not socialism, and as conservative as I am; as much as I do not support Obama's policies, it pisses me the f**k off when people like Sean Hannity start to open their mouthes and say that we are entering times of complete socialism and state ownership. I realize that people like Sean Hannity are entertainers, but there are people out there who actually believe everything they hear, and therefore believe what he's saying, which makes me angy/sad.

Go back to Lenin's Russia and complain, and leave us alone.

/rant

[L|L]

I blame it on people with just a little too much information and not enough processing power to make anything of it.

A 22 caliber in a 357 world, if you will.

[Swamp56]

Very nice analogy there ^^

[xequar]

As one of the most liberal members on these boards, I'm rather happy to see a conservative speaking out against Rush and Hannity and their seemingly limitless blathering about how Obama's turning us into socialists.

Really? Throwing trillions at the banks and LEAVING them in private hands is socialism now?

Socialism? Ain't gonna happen under Obama's watch. Obama's a center-right conservative wanna-be, not a true liberal. As for Rush and Hannity... No, I'll stay quiet for the moment.

Ignorant people usually label as 'socialism' everything that is slightly to the left of their beliefs.

[Greggers]

Obama is conservative. Its true. Look at a REAL political spectrum, and Democrats are "conservative-liberals" and Republicans are "liberal-conservatives". They both have a little bit of both in them, and there really is not some 'epic and huge' difference. Its not like your picking between Hitler and Stalin here

[Emberstone]

well, most republicans cant argue a point properly, so they have to resort to mud slinging. many democrats are the same, but they are slightly more rare then republicans in that.

politics in general is screwed up.

And rush limbaugh is the worldest biggest hypocrite. aside from being a morally bankrupt person, his opinions often ammounts to the same mentality and hateful idiolagy that caused people to fly planes into buildings, bomb subways, and send I.E.D.s to iraq. he rarely stays on tasks, and like ann coulter, he spends most of his time blaming everyone else for the problems that his party is the root cause of.

he will trash jamie lynn spears for getting pregnant, but praise and glorify and worship bristol palin for getting pregnant.

he will abuse liberal actors and polititons for having drug problems, but he was popping pills like a pro for years.

[Swamp56]

Again, he's there for entertainment!

Oh, and I can't stand Ann Coulter; she's very hate-ridden.

And yes, I'm a registered republican lol.

[joeyconnick]

Originally Posted by Greggers

Obama is conservative. Its true. Look at a REAL political spectrum, and Democrats are "conservative-liberals" and Republicans are "liberal-conservatives". They both have a little bit of both in them, and there really is not some 'epic and huge' difference. Its not like your picking between Hitler and Stalin here

I totally agree with you--except for the part about Republicans being "liberal-conservatives." There is nothing liberal (in the 1960s/70s sense of the word) about today's US Republicans. They start at "conservative" and are heavily tilted to "archconservative."

That's what bugs me most about America, I think: that Americans think the country is made up of liberals and conservatives when really it's made up of (at best) centrists and conservatives. For example, the "liberal" wing of the US Supreme Court is not even remotely as "left-wing" as the "conservative" wing is "right-wing." It's not even close. Everything in America that is "bipartisan" is in reality heavily tilted right.

[joeyconnick]

Originally Posted by Swamp56

As some of you may know, I'm one of the more conservative members on this forum; limited government and the complete abolition of many of the government programs that United States Government has is typically my ideals, as well as the fact that I was a McCain supporter and heavily supported Mitt Romney before he dropped out.

I am part of the Republicans Club in my school, and I currenty disagree with many of Obama's policies and legislation. I watch Fox News and I like Bill O'Reilly and I agree with Rush Limbaugh on certain issues.

That being said, I have been listening to many people start to preach againt socialism and saying that the United States is entering a period in which socialism is going to dominate and rule our lives. They say Obama is the devil and is going to turn us upside down and that he's going to destroy the world as we know it.

First off, it's NOT socialism. HOW IS THIS SOCIALISM? With talks of nationalization of the United States Banking System, these things have been said. Obama has already said that this is not going to happen. We have privatized health care, privatized businesses, privatized oil companies, privatized retail sectors, privatized insurance companies, and a privatized industrial sector.

Second, socialism preaches state ownership of business, property, and social environments. This is NOT happening in the United States. If there is one thing that will never happen, it's state ownership of property in this country. It's impossible to do...too many people would uprise and protest this.

What we are going through is not socialism, and as conservative as I am; as much as I do not support Obama's policies, it pisses me the f**k off when people like Sean Hannity start to open their mouthes and say that we are entering times of complete socialism and state ownership. I realize that people like Sean Hannity are entertainers, but there are people out there who actually believe everything they hear, and therefore believe what he's saying, which makes me angy/sad.

Go back to Lenin's Russia and complain, and leave us alone.

/rant

Uhm... maybe I'm wrong here but without consulting wikipedia, isn't it communism that specifies state ownership of business and property? Socialism (at least in my mind) is more the middle ground between communism and capitalism: strong government intervention and regulation of private property and industry, with certain endeavours being government-run. As in, France is socialist but people still have private ownership of stuff. And Canada is more socialist than the US (of course, being more socialist than the US is hardly difficult) but trust me, we definitely have private ownership here.

That being said, IF ONLY the US were going to bcome more socialist! Please, nationalise the banks! Regulate the corporations! Put the commons back into public hands! I think the most "socialist" thing Obama will do is nationalise, or at least attempt to, healthcare. Even that would be an amazing and awesome feat--I love that more people than we even have in Canada are uninsured in the US now. It's pretty sad... so much for being one of the most wealthy, and definitely the most powerful, nation on the planet.

[Gumtree]

Originally Posted by Swamp56

Again, he's there for entertainment!

Oh, and I can't stand Ann Coulter; she's very hate-ridden.

And yes, I'm a registered republican lol.

I have friend IRL named Ann Coulter!

Although she's a hippy wannabe vegetarian left wing queen.

[Noah]

I am libertarian most of the time (fiscally conservative, socially liberal). I really get tired of Rush, and anyone on Fox News, spouting conservative bigotry. Did anyone see the Fox News review of Milk? They didn't even mention he was gay!!! Hysterical. At least stations like CBS, NBC, ABC, and NPR pretend to be fair.

[Greggers]

Originally Posted by joeyconnick

]Uhm... maybe I'm wrong here but without consulting wikipedia, isn't it communism that specifies state ownership of business and property? Socialism (at least in my mind) is more the middle ground between communism and capitalism: strong government intervention and regulation of private property and industry, with certain endeavours being government-run. As in, France is socialist but people still have private ownership of stuff. And Canada is more socialist than the US (of course, being more socialist than the US is hardly difficult) but trust me, we definitely have private ownership here.

That being said, IF ONLY the US were going to bcome more socialist! Please, nationalise the banks! Regulate the corporations! Put the commons back into public hands! I think the most "socialist" thing Obama will do is nationalise, or at least attempt to, healthcare. Even that would be an amazing and awesome feat--I love that more people than we even have in Canada are uninsured in the US now. It's pretty sad... so much for being one of the most wealthy, and definitely the most powerful, nation on the planet.

Communism is *SUPPOSED* to be shared wealth and property. The government is not supposed to own everything, its BASED on the idea that everyone in the entire country shares an equal part. We all share our wealth so that we have no more poor and no more rich, everyone is equal to everyone. No one owns all the land because everyone shares the land. Its a good idea in theory, were it messes up is the "government" decides to moderate this by controlling everything for everyone. As soon as its one person or a group of people controlling everything, they go MAD from the power. If it were possible to apply pure communism in the true sense, it would fix alot of problems. I am 100% behind communism. I wish that there were no rich and poor But alas, humans fuck things up so it would never work.

So, like you said, thats were Socialism comes in. Its basically a practical form of communism that is much more an "in-between" stage than pure communism. We still have government and free trade and everything, but it all has to be moderated so that what is happening right now with the banks and the stock market and ect. does NOT happen. Like everything, it still has flaws. I just cant see how its flaws are greater or equal than the flaws of Capitalism. Capitalism is going to eventually kill America im sure :P But before then the winds of change might blow in and save America, i hope Obama helps with that. But even if Obama WANTED to make America Socialist, or even LIBERAL, he could not. The president does not actually have enough power to MAKE those changes. If he did, America would be FUCKED by now because anyone who has that much power corrupts and ends up screwing everyone over (Look at history, and this is 100% true)

[edogs334]

Hey Swamp,

I know what I'm about to ask is loaded question, and I SWEAR I won't judge you whatever your answer. As a Republican who happens to be gay, where do you stand on LGBT issues? I'm unaffiliated myself- I used to be a Democrat, but I got fed up with both parties.

[edogs334]

It's also important to point out that not everyone who's conservative/Republican is a homophobe. I'd say most of the people at my old job were Republicans, but when it came to gay folks, more than half of them were like "oh, gay people? Who cares?" or "Oh, my uncle's gay, it's no problem."

[Shevanel]

Concerning the party system, we should've just listened to freakin George Washington all along... but nooooooooooooooooo. We all had to be bitches didn't we. lol.

[Mr Bojangles]

Most Americans wouldn't know Socialism if it came up and bit them on the arse.

[Nitro]

These people vote:

+ YouTube Video

"Outside the John McCain rally in Denver, Colorado a number of people entering the rally were caught on camera calling Barak [sic] Obama Muslim, Terrorist, Communist, Monkey and more."

It would only make sense that people who represent (or are perceived to represent) these world views would make their way into the larger political arena. While the Ann Coulters of this world may seem like a pleasant diversion to us, someone so out of touch with reality they assure us of our relative sanity, she is but the more articulate and more respectable mouthpiece of ignorance and hatred. These people will never read The Communist Manifesto, nor grasp any of the main premises or conclusions. It is most ironic to note, given their worldly ignorance, that they are (likely) economically taken advantage of by the capitalist system and would do much better in a system that distributes wealth more evenly. Socialism has become a dirty word to the people it would help the most.

The mere existence of a portion of the electorate that is out of touch with reality is a given; it exists in all democratic societies. However, the impressive size of this portion relative to other countries, and the pandering to this group by politicians astounds me. Its existence should happen by chance, such as in the case of mental defect, or WBC-esque cult indoctrination. This is the failure of parents, schools, and communities to form healthy educated members of the electorate. As children they appear to have been "left behind".

I hope ever one of us will remember these concerns when voting on measures of education and child development policy and financial support. We may not all be breeders, but in due course we will reap what we sough - especially if they demand their right to vote.

[silas99]

Wow this is a pretty intense political discussion. I agree wholeheartedly with Greggers about the success of communism. In a perfect world communism would create the most profitable (ironically) and efficient society....unfortunately human nature does not allow this. As a race we are selfish and the evolutionary basis of survival of the fittest comes into play. Socialism allows some of the communist theories to work in practice (if it is carried out well).

The USA has developed capitalism and as such has become the richest country in the world.....however at an individual level this is not the case. Capitalism works on the basis that effort and work is directly proportional to income, but this just is not true. The rags to riches stories are few and far between. Unfortunately a boy born into a black family living in the Bronx of Philadelphia has a much lower chance of becoming a doctor (for example) than a white middle class boy. Even if they had the potential to obtain equivalent schooling grades, the bronx kid would not have the same resources available to him; poorer schooling, lack of funds for university degrees, dangerous environment. How can anyone possibly support capitalism, when it fuels the rich, poor divide? Even America goes against its roots by providing some degree of social support (although minimal). In countries with no available support, (such as India) you are left with a society where the rich get richer and the poor stoop further and further into poverty.

Granted there are some disadvantages to the socialist system, but these can be tackled by better management. One huge down side is that you have the potential to develop a society where people work to the minimum possible and still prosper on benefits, whilst others work hard to maintain the economy. This can be prevented to a certain extent though, by better regulation. The people who "suffer" under socialism is the middle class......the poor get things paid for them and the rich can afford everything. Unfortunately it is very difficult to find a solution to this problem....however in my opinion, on the whole, society would function better.

[lordjord96]

Originally Posted by Swamp56

....Go back to Lenin's Russia and complain, and leave us alone.

/rant

Lenin(RIP) does NOT own russia (speaking in the sence of when he was alive).soo WTF im a leninist/marxist but also i follow in the ways of Vladimir Putin.

2nd . who is saying that america is turning socialist? it IS capitalist and all ways will be!

ps. im not sure how the tone was when you said

Originally Posted by Swamp56

....Go back to Lenin's Russia and complain, and leave us alone.