In Vitro Fertilization and Choosing Traits

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No. Unless it's for curing diseases, genetics shouldn't be fucked with.

Imho, people being people, we'd start trying to make a perfect designer race and descriminating against those that aren't perfectly designed. Pessimistic, but my opinion .

 

Have you looked into the boy-girl ratio in China? There are some interesting documentaries on it (I'd suggest looking at the newer ones though). I just thought I'd bring this up as it kind of links into this- when you mentioned about parents being able to pick their child's sex it made me think about that so yeah...

 

Right - but what if this ''girl'' they had is really a boy. When he comes out and tells his family that, isn't it going to make them more likely to disown him since he's no longer the ''girl'' they wanted? [I think only choosing the sex is possible, and not gender]

You might not see it this way - but purposefully choosing the straight gene is no more homophobic than disowning a child for being gay. The only difference is is that you can't tell the child you've disowned them as they haven't been born yet. But it's still rejection only because they're gay.

Sure, it might prevent unnecessarily abortions and children, but then the parents need to be told about still treating the child right if they don't turn out ''in their image''. They might have chosen the genetics, but they haven't chosen the person who those genetics turn out to be.

 

I'm not in total approval of this.

I wouldn't like for someone to decide who I should be, or who their kids should be. And sure, the kid wouldn't know the difference if they never experienced it, but it also creates a society with more discrimination and the ability to make us more...boring. No variety.

I have Asperger's, and if my parents chose to not make me have Asperger's, they might have, but it also would have erased a huge portion of the person I love. Those with AS are usually more logically intelligent, we ignore gender roles, we ignore social standards, and we be ourselves in the face of everything. Maybe I wouldn't have known the difference, but I would have just been a carbon copy of everything else. There would be nothing unique about me and nothing valuable about my life.

I wouldn't want to be born straight, and as dramatic as it sounds, I'd probably be more depressed. I love being gay. Especially if I still had asperger's, where, keeping in mind that most people with AS hate gender roles and social constructs, it would have made me miserable. Let's face it, straight relationships suck for women (and men too). We are limited in gender expression, we face pregnancy and more life threatening STDs (if you are a woman), women face really stupid sexist double standards (Like how I have to look like a perfect model all the time, but men can be fat and have foot long beards and that's ok), Or how men are more pressured to pay on the first date, How straight women take advantage of men and abuse them because "they shouldn't fight back", How straight women don't feel as much physical pleasure as lesbians do since oral/hands cause the most pleasure compared to PIV (and I would be limited to PIV only and wouldn't be allowed to dislike it....).

Maybe I sound heterophobic, but there is so much I hate about heterosexuality after coming to realize that being homosexual is FREEDOM to me.

As for not getting to pick a gender, that doesn't always work out the way you think it would. The 8th child who is finally a girl, may end up being a trans guy. Likewise, she might not be trans but incredibly gender non-comforming. I knew a couple who had 6 kids, and when they FINALLY had a girl, she hated skirts/dresses, refused to shave, cut her hair, was only into masculine activities. She was almost a stereotypical macho dude in so many ways. So either way they never got the stereotype they wanted. And lets face it, most of the gender disappointment comes from socially constructed gender roles.

 

Hell to the no.

This would lead into perfectionism of the human species. The perfect race from Hitler comes to mind. I know for real that if this was available, I wouldn't have been born. You may deem my life ''shitty'', but I damn well want to live it regardless.

As for sicknesses, I'm not even sure we should mess with that either.

 

I think both sides have some good points, so... I'm undecided. Maybe only allow people to choose a few certain traits, like hair and eye color? I don't know...

 

Absolutely not! Messing with genetics like this will only harm humanity in the long run. From the way that humans behave and interact with each other, this sounds like a great way to add on to the rampant classism that's been present since the beginning of civilization. Messing with nature has never been good for keeping balance in the world either. The best example in my opinion is the uneven ratio of AMAB and AFAB children in countries such as China. Because of society's ignorance, we've seen crises in nations where there is simply not enough women since they were all aborted (which are only now starting to be alleviated).



TLDR: Messing with genes like this will lead to shit hitting the fan yet again.

 

I don't agree with this at all. By allowing people to pick and choose what features they want on their child, life loses its value. It becomes a commodity for anyone to create and use to satisfy their own wishes. Isn't that slavery? The world isn't a video game where you get to choose your character and delete it as soon as you're done.

 

For one my child can chose who they want to be including hobbies interests etc. obviously nature already takes a huge place in that but i feel that by choosing certain things for my child that might be so tightly linked to their inner identity i am somehow dictating them who and what they should become. A child does not have to be great in maths in order to deserve love and i believe some people would forget that and try living out their dreams through their children or deciding what's best for them more than they already do.

Also mistakes are human..so why should we try to erase them?

 

Indeed. I wouldn't have been born either, but then again I don't think much of my family would have been if we somehow travelled to a world where such a possibility existed.

This question kind of reminds me of another- "Why don't we all speak the same language and drop the others?" and I have a similar response: because we'd have to decide which traits we deemed worthy of keeping/which language was the best- and since there isn't really a "best language" you can bet that there would be a lot of arguments that would lead nowhere.

But let's say we pick said traits, and other parents bully those that didn't pick said traits. Traits that were deemed to not be "perfect" would die out. Let's take Hitler's "perfect race" example- all blonde haired, blue eyed white people.

Ok, so now what? Well...there's the problem of inbreeding that comes to mind. By picking these traits you have essentially removed any genetic variation from the population.

"But couldn't the blue eyed, blonde haired people just pick traits they want to add back in to the population if said world was limitless?" Well...they could, but you have to keep in mind that these blue eyed-blonde haired people would have been brought up in a world that has essentially told them that they're the best for having these traits. They might not want to give them up so easily. They may do eventually, some where down the line- but the damage would have already been done by then.

"Ok, so why not have them all just stay like that, with no variation at all?". Because inbreeding causes issues. You would get to a point where the general population would see nothing wrong with themselves, so they would most likely mate naturally and not edit their offspring.

Let's step away from this example and go to another- dog breeds. If you've done anything about genetic engineering at school, you've most likely done about dog breeds. In particular, inbreeding. Or perhaps you've done about royalty, and upper class inbreeding because they don't want to mate with those of a lower class so they mate with their own family.

Inbreeding causes certain traits to get stronger, but this isn't always a good thing. What started out as a good thing- let's say a small nose that was deemed "cute", can cause problems as it goes down the generations (the nose becomes stubby, to the point of restricting air from passing in and out of the nose, and also blocking the free-flow of mucus which if you're sick would usually push out the stuff that your body is trying to keep out. But if it's blocked, well...have fun having a stub for a nose that's blocked up with mucus and you have to go around breathing with your mouth exclusively all the time.

Likewise, if you had a really pointed nose that was repeatedly passed down generations, that would cause problems too.

The world relies on genetic diversity. Sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes it's a bad thing. But it's better than everyone being the same. Do you really want us to end up like some dog breeds have? And all the health problems that come with that?

Personally, I think I'll pass. I like living in such a diverse world, it makes things interesting.

 

Okay. I think that in vitro fertilization is being turned a bit negative here. It's a way for parents to have children when they've tried for a long time and it seems impossible. My brother, twin sister, and I were all born through in vitro fertilization, and it's not a bad thing. It's not usually used for genetic purposes. It's just used so someone can have a child when they've near given up.
I believe that choosing your child's genetics is wrong and takes away genetic diversity, like many of you have said, but I just want you all to know that in vitro fertilization is not bad. It's just a way for people to have children. That's all.

 

I didn't feel that anyone was talking badly about in-vitro, to be honest. The original poster however asked us about the ethics of choosing genes, which is what we answered.

I personally think in-vitro is a good thing for couples who have trouble reproducing.

 

No. Natural diversity must be preserved. We can see from past experiences that trying to control nature results in chaos. We see this in how we've treated the evironment, animals, crops etc. Why would we impart this destructive behaviour on ourselves? Trying to convince myself of the advantages, I only start to echo nazi ideals.

 

@iiimee

You have way too much faith in the human species. Look at human history and tell me it is far-fetched to think humans would try to perfect their offspring and essentially divide themselves again. You already have people who judge others for adopting since their offspring ''won't look like them''. Making them able to choose the traits will only aggravate that.

As for the abortions, not only is that a completely different subject, but you're implying that I'm all for abortions which (spoiler alert) I'm not.

For the sicknesses, since humans have such a problem maintaining their population, making them immune to everything just might not be the best idea. Just saying.

 

I don't view being a lesbian as a flaw in anyway. You can say that gay people are oppressed, but you know who else is oppressed? Women, including heterosexual ones. Straight women especially are oppressed by straight men, which makes their sexuality unique and imo more dangerous. Either way, I'm living a life of oppression so I don't get your point about flaws. If your argument was to work, shouldn't I have just be born a straight man if I wanted to avoid having a "social flaw"?

Also, misandry runs in my family. Every straight woman in my family either hates men, wants to stay single, or wants to hurt/abuse men as 'revenge', so I don't see how the straight gene would make me happier. My parents wouldn't think as far to remove the misandry gene in my family, and even if they did, I would still learn to hate men and hate my heterosexuality through the environment and actions of my family. (I removed the longer explanation for this as it was unneeded)

Genetic diversity is a good thing. Also, on the gender thing, what if people ONLY wanted boys because again, men have more power, especially in China. It would mean as a human race, we would die out eventually.