I posted this in the “What are you thinking?” thread before: Spoiler So, I felt like going on a bit off a rant about this. I feel like I’ve been keeping this in for a while, so I thought that I might as well just get it out my system. I feel like with education, there is a bit of a divide between how we treat students with certain difficulties, compared to students with slightly different problems. Spoiler It can be frustrating at times. Now, as a student who has struggled with both English and maths, I’d like to talk about how these subjects are treated, or rather- the students. I think that we can all agree here that mathematics is usually regarded as the higher, more important, subject than English. However, I don’t think that excuses the treatment of those who have a hard time with maths. What I have found over the years, is that a difficulty with English is often treated more light-heartedly. It’s seen as something more to joke about, and students are often reassured that people who have struggled with difficulties just like theirs, have go on to be successful. They’re told that lots of people struggle with English, and that’s ok. Students who struggle with maths don’t have that. Instead they’re labelled as lazy and a troublemaker, and they certainly don’t get talks on how some celebrity managed to overcome their difficulty with maths. Instead, they’re told that they’re illogical and the only future they have is at some terrible job, and they’ll live somewhere terrible when they grow up if they don’t “stop being lazy”. With English, you tend to get a supportive pat on the back, and told that if you keep working hard, you’ll get there. With maths, you don’t get that supportiveness. Or at least, I’ve never gotten that. I’ve never been told that I’ll get there, instead it tends to just be amazement I actually got something right, and sometimes getting laughed at for getting things wrong. I don’t have a very good opinion of a lot of my maths teachers, I’ve hated the majority I’ve had. I’ll admit that after a while I tend to stereotype on what a maths teacher is like, but after so long of being messed around with incompetent teachers, is it any surprise that I feel like I’ve had enough? Sure, I’ve had a few nice maths teachers before, however we didn’t really learn anything from them. I’d like to highlight some of the things I’ve heard, and some of the things that have either been said to others or me and in general how I feel that people are being treated based on my experiences. English VS maths. Teacher finds out that student struggles with the subject- English: Well, that’s ok. We can work through this together. Now, which part is it that you struggle on? Maths: Oh come on, it isn’t all that hard. People like to act like it is, but it’s not. You just have to put in the effort and make the grades. Now let me bombard you with a load of different methods, only to tell you to use the one that works best for you- even if it’s an incredibly slow, ineffective method that doesn’t apply to the majority of things, but you can only really use those methods because I’m not stopping to cover the other methods in any more detail since you clearly struggle to understand them and probably never will. Teacher finds out that a student (in particular a male student) struggles with the subject- English: That’s hardly surprising, most guys have trouble with English. You’re not alone on that one. *lists famous guys who had a hard time with English* You’ll get through. Maths: It’s because you don’t pay attention, either that or you’re an idiot. Teacher finds out that a student (in particular a female student) struggles with the subject- English: Really? Ok, well in that case you should be fine. At least you won’t be any trouble, unlike the boys in this class. After all I usually don’t have any problems with girls. Maths: Come on, you can do better than this. Do you really want to feed into the whole “girls can’t do maths?”. Where do you think you’ll get like this? You’re an idiot, you need to pay attention. Motivation- English: Just look at all the people who have succeeded who used to struggle with English, all you need to do is pass and you’ll be fine. Maths: Do you want to work so minimal waged job that treats you like rubbish? Successful people who have struggled with maths? Ha, yeah right. Maybe some B-list reality TV star sure, but do you really want to end up like that? You lot are useless. Diagnosing issues- English: Are you dyslexic? We can run tests if you want. Maths: Ha, yeah sure. We’ll run tests, when we die. That is, if we even know about or believe in dyscalculia. We’ll claim to offer support to students with dyscalculia, but we don’t offer any tests or any information about places that do, and then we’ll be surprised we have no one to support. Writing down the questions wrong by mistake- English: Are you ok? Can you see the board ok? Are you dyslexic? Can I help? Maths: Ha ha, that’s brilliant. You really are stupid, aren’t you? Are you not paying attention? Guess I’ll see you next year then. Sorry, I just needed to get that off my mind. It’s just, sometimes I get a bit annoyed because I feel like I’m not being treated seriously enough. When I first joined College, they told me they could definitely look in to running tests on whether or not I have dyscalculia. I’ve had people express concern about it throughout most of my life, and my parents think I have it. Unfortunately, they act like I’ve already been diagnosed and that it’s all definite. It isn’t. I have to explain this to people all the time. My parents tell people I have it, and then I have to explain the situation. It gets annoying, but they don’t seem to understand the damage that it does. I understand that they feel fairly confident I have it, but that doesn’t mean anything and I wish they’d stop. My parents commented their concerns when I first joined the College, and the College made it clear that they couldn’t test for it, but they did offer support for it. So the College made a note about it, except they didn’t make it all that clear. They’d put it down that I had it, so I had a conversation about it with my tutor. My tutor said that they could test for it, and sent a message to my other tutor (my personal development tutor) with the words “really important” on an email. I didn’t hear anything after that. All that happened was that they took it off the system, and it was forgotten about. I later asked my tutor about it, and she’d forgotten about it and wasn’t sure what I was on about, and said something about it being put down as “extra-curricular”. I didn’t bring it up after that. In secondary, I was allowed extra time on the basis of a) being slow at writing, and b) visual processing issues. No reason was given for the visual processing issues, but when I took a general test in secondary to see if I was eligible for extra time, I scored incredibly low in the visual processing sections. The higher the score was, the better. I was under average to quite a noticeable degree. I also scored above average, and way above average on some sections, so there was quite a mix in my results- making what I actually struggle with a lot more noticeable. However, I didn’t get any extra time in exams when I took my resits. I tried, although I mostly assumed that I would be eligible because I had put down on my College forms that I had previously received extra-time, but no one asked me about this. However, without a proper reason it was quite hard to get anyone to listen. I mean, in terms of the slow writing- I could have spent a few months trying to be allowed one of the Colleges laptops, but even that’s hard because they usually only allow those when somebody has really bad handwriting, and I don’t- my handwriting’s ok, not great but ok. And with the visual processing issues, that probably wouldn’t mean anything on its own to them. They have offered me dyslexia testing, but I don’t have any problems with reading- not with words anyway. Numbers however…. I sometimes read wrong. Like 24 becoming 42 and sometimes my mind skips ahead when reading numbers, for instance- 1) 2*4 4) 6/7 2) 4*6 5) 5% of 70 3) 7-8 6) 7-6 Might become 1) 2*8-6 Yet, I don’t seem to do this with words. :/ The only time I do this with words is when I really tired, but I do the same with numbers even when I’m wide awake and well rested. After finding out my results, I am more concerned than ever. Last time, I got a D on the higher paper, and this time I was entered on foundation level and I got an E. I’m really hoping to get extra time this year, and my parents plan to get me a tutor and send me to night school sessions- although, hopefully not at the College as I don’t seem to be learning a great deal with the teachers I have, although I suppose the night sessions might be run by someone else. Yeah…. Sorry for the long thread, but I had to get this out. Wait, that's rich coming from me isn't it? I'm probably know for my long threads by now. Sorry anyway.
Is it possible for you to get tested for dyscalculia outside of the school system somehow? And then you show the results of this to the authorities and they will have to give you extra time? A lot of this sounds to me like carelessness on the part of the teachers. But also yeah I have also experienced people treating maths and English differently. I was pretty good at English in school and I wasn't BAD at maths I guess, but I was genuinely lazy and I knew it. So I used to do quite badly in that but whenever I said I had done well in English I would always hear "oh English doesn't matter". Not "well done but you still need to work harder at maths" but "English doesn't matter". It's sad but it's true. I heard the same thing about classmates who struggles with science and history. "Just scrape through history, it doesn't matter, but you HAVE TO do well in science".
One thing that pisses me off with english exams is that apparently, according to my english teachers, you HAVE to agree with the last question, whether you do or not. And yet somehow I was able to disagree with the question and be top in my class last exam, so fuck you school.
Is it common for English speaking places to tell students that English is useless? For us, the schools take French extremely seriously, going as far as to correct it in every class (yes, even Maths and Science!). In High School, there are only 3 classes you NEED to pass to progress to the next year: French, Maths and English (though the latter is as a second language, so it's really easy). All in all, I understand what you mean. I never get told translation is a useless field, but I get told Arts and Music are, unfortunately :/ The system pushes you towards science and maths (which I suck at), but it doesn't shame you for becoming a French teacher.
I laugh at those who say English is useless and those who think mathematics is held on a higher pedastool. While, yes, mathematics is idolized, but I will argue that English plays into mathematics. Once you get into the pure mathematics, you start to see words and form sentences. Also, in Algebra, you'll translate words and phrases into mathematical expressions. But, now for the post at hand, you might benefit by getting formally tested for dyscalculia or formally tested for dyslexia. Even though those two are different, people will think they're the same and get extra help (extra time) that way. If you have any type of recognized learnring disability, you could possibly qualify to get Section 504'd and get extra time.
English education is fucked up. I mean, they hoisted up the grade boundaries this year so that more people would have to resit.... Such a joke. The maths pass rates are down like 2.5%, which is a crazy amount of people not getting a core subject.
This is what I've been wondering too, but it can be hard to find a place that actually tests for it. I've tried to find any information I can online, but without much success. This is why I get annoyed that I'm not offered any suggestions on where I could go, I mean I don't mind if the College can't test for it, but I'd prefer they were honest with that and offered suggestions. I get that's not their job, but at least I'd know where to start. All I've found so far is testing in America (even when I search UK), sites that redirect me to dyslexia testing, sites that ask if there's any point to having a dyscalculia diagnosis, sites that question the validity of dyscalculia, and sites and videos on how the condition is currently way under-diagnosed. I mean, if anyone knows anywhere I could go then any advice would be gladly appreciated. Even if it's somewhere that does a more general test, like seeing if you have any issues alongside dyslexia. That one may be a little harder though, as I think my dad would be a little reluctant to put me through testing for dyslexia. He's dyslexic, and he doesn't think I have it, but that I may have dyscalculia. Although, if there's any chance that getting tested for dyslexia could lead to getting tested for dyscalculia then in that case I might look into it and bring it up with my parents. Also, on a random note- I find it quite fitting that if you misspell dyscalculia, Google offers the correction of "miscalculate". I missed a letter off, and it offered that suggestion.
I feel like an update is probably due. Sadly, I am still fighting for extra time. I've brought in documentation showing that I was entitled to extra time in secondary, but they say that isn't enough and I need to be tested again (you know, just in case my results were a fluke and I no longer have issues now).:dry: I am aware that when you get into a higher level of maths, it tends to become more word based. People say that maths is just logic, which I find curious. Back in Primary, I applied for extra time but was rejected on the basis that I did "too well" on my teacher assessments, and on some- I even did better than the teachers! You know it's concerning when a ten year old does better than their teachers. These tests were supposed to test my ability to reason and use logic, so if we go by this test then I am apparently logical. But if maths is pure logic, like many have told me, why am I so bad at it? I guess I must possess some other form of logic. I'm usually better at the more logic based questions, it's simple arithmetic and time I struggle with. :eusa_doh: I guess this shows considering I did slightly better on higher than foundation somehow. I don't really show any signs of dyslexia (or at least, not much) so it would be unlikely for my College to want to test for it. However, with my dad's difficulties, they might considering that, test for it. I could look at getting tested outside the College, but few places recognise dyscalculia so that would be difficult. I could look into more general testing and dyslexic tests I guess, but I don't know how much that would help. I guess I'm probably on my own for the exam this year again, I better start revising. :icon_sad: :eusa_doh: ---------- Post added 17th Dec 2016 at 01:25 PM ---------- Even though they've put me down for the test for extra time, they seem to have forgotten about it. I'll have to remind them when I get back in January, but I doubt anything will get done because nothing ever does.:dry: ---------- Post added 17th Dec 2016 at 01:26 PM ---------- *As in the test to see if I'm entitled to it.
Oh I know I hate English and math. I hated taking pre calculus and all that other stuff. I don't even see why you need to learn it if I'm only going to be taking 9th grade math in college. Oh and English. I get the point of it but it sucks. It's so boring. Especially when we read and then we pause and summarize and then interpret what we wrote. It's like ugh! I think that's why I hate reading so much.
I don't hate English, in fact I rather enjoy fantasy and science fiction stories, and read books from time to time. I tend to write more stories than read them though. However, there are still parts I struggle on, such as writing articles and the ilk properly. I actually passed my literature on higher the first time around, I'm just not great at reading tone and writing enough on tests. I hate writing letters. I also need to work on my grammar, and punctuation. I'm not sure what "9th grade" and "pre calculus" entail exactly, but you're probably better at it then me. :eusa_doh: ---------- Post added 17th Dec 2016 at 04:07 PM ---------- *than not then.
I tend to do really well in English personally, usually getting straight A's. However, when it comes to math, I'm at the bottom of the barrel. I only got about a 30% on my last math exam, so...yeah. I've failed it so many times. I couldn't even figure out middle school math when I was in high school. And some of us are doing the best we can, but the work is too hard. We need better teachers to guide us through it. It's pathetic how they treat some of the students that struggle with it.
*Another update* After several conversations with teachers, I have finally been given a place on the list to be tested for extra time. The test will take place next week, and is said to take up to 30 minutes to complete. I don't know when I'll get the results of said test, and I'll have to see if I qualify or not. I plan to update this thread when I find out my results.
