Why don't more non-TERFs talk about lesbophobia?

I think it's a kind of backlash. Bisexuals and Trans girls had (and still have) so much negative stigma attached to them, that they're rightfully suspicious that others, especially cis lesbians within the sapphic community (don't know if there's an official term so I'll call it that for now) consider their identity to be lesser.

I think the main blame in this situation falls on TERFs who claim that being a lesbian is central to their transphobic beliefs. They are repurposing an identity in the worst possible way, and because of the way TERFs marginalise bi/pan and trans identities, it is often forgotten that being a lesbian isn't exactly problem free either.

For what it's worth, whenever I've expressly come out to someone as liking girls, even when I use the word 'gay,' they've assumed I'm bisexual or could meet the right guy someday. From that I can assume that being a lesbian is still an identity that isn't wholeheartedly accepted.

 

well, female sexuality does tend to be more fluid than male sexuality, so that assumption does have some weight :/

 

I actually doubt that tbh. I think because of the assumption that female sexuality is fluid and male sexuality isn't, there's a lot of men attracted to more than one gender who either assume or pretend otherwise.

For the sake of argument though, even if female sexuality is more fluid, it doesn't stop it from being offensive at best and damaging at worst to believe that a woman who identifies as a lesbian will fall for the right man when they come along, which many people do.

 

It might have something to do with lesbians being a minority (and invisible, like someone said, since most assume lesbian means bisexual porn star, or whatever), and lesbian feminist being a double minority.

TERFs probably get the worst of it, since they make no bones about their beliefs and don't aim to please men. It's the whole "hairy, man-hating feminist" stereotype that many women try to avoid.

Not all radical feminist are TERF, but they do seem to make the most noise.

 

That's what drives me crazy..when I say to someone I'm gay they just say something like "it's a phase" "you're just experimenting" or "don't worry you will find the right guy someday" WHAT?
I can't understand why people don't think that a woman can be exclusively attracted to other women...I'm so sick of it..

 

It does frequent the border of absurdity to put it lightly.

I don't know, I've encountered more than a handful of these types, some even rather vehement about it. I was hoping I just had a knack for finding the intellectually deficient but it seems plenty of others have encountered the very same issue.

Unsure of why but from what I've seen they presume; "Lesbians are actually bi" and then "Bi women only date men", people would deem me mad if I started telling strangers they were gay and just didn't know it yet.

 

I'm afraid that society has lied to you. Men simply aren't sexualized nearly as much as women therefore it is much less likely to hear about a sexually fluid guy than a sexually fluid girl. It's a sort of double standard on homophobia: girl on girl is okay but guy on guy is gross. It's pretty sad.

 

Old thread but replying to this.

This is actually false. Women are socially more fluid, but there's nothing biological in nature about it. It's cultural. Hell, look back at ancient greece and rome. There was a higher percentage of men sleeping with other men, where as women barely looked at one another.

Female sexuality is more fluid because:

1. Society sexualizes female/female relationships but not male/male ones. So straight women get brainwashed into experimenting for the cool factor, while straight men wouldn't admit to doing it because it's taboo. However, many men do engage in "gay activity" such as prison sex. You could write it off as situational sexuality, but a straight girl engaging in threesomes to "please the boyfriend" isn't much different.

2. Misunderstanding of how female genitals works. Vaginas can get wet to lesbian porn, (even if the person ID's as straight) and that is written off as fluidity in a study. But similar studies also have proven that vaginas get wet to child porn and zoophilia too. I wouldn't consider most women to be fluid pedophiles, so in reality, It's more of a biological function that just happens beyond our control.

3. Men have the one drop rule. A guy can sleep with a million women and one man, but will always be labeled as gay no matter what. Men aren't allowed to be bisexual or fluid.

4. Sexist beliefs make us seem more fluid than we are. For example, if a pure lesbian gets married to a man, she is always seen as being fluid the whole time. But if a gay man marries a woman, he's told that he was closeted and hiding the whole time. In reality, many lesbians are the same position as gay men, but are treated differently because of sex.

Another thing is social stigma. For men, there is a very big social stigma to be attracted to men. For women, there's a huge social stigma of NOT being attracted to men. So many kinsey 6 lesbians have faked being straight or bisexual for safety reasons, and many bicurious straight guys have lied about their encounters also for safety reasons.

My 2cents /

But I agree with this thread. There's a lot of lesbophobia in the world, including in LGBT places, and even occasionally on this website.

 

Actually Creativemind, Ancient Greek woman were probably as bi as the men (although it's a bit hard to tell as all the histories from that time were written by men, and so they tended to ignore women).

Also the word "Lesbian" actually comes from Ancient Greek.

Also also, women are more likely to sleep with other women, than men are to sleep with other men, so women might very well be more likely to be sexualy fluid than men.

 

I don't know how we can know how truthful it is that women are more genuinely likely to sleep with other women, though. Most women I know that do it have done it out of the pressure to impress the guy they were dating rather than actual sexual interest. And I know a large amount of men who have been with other men, but wouldn't admit to it. You see a lot of it in prisons and same sex schools (although it is written off as situational, even though most women are with women for similar reasons).

Handjobs are especially common among straight male friends to the point it seems rare to not see guys who haven't done it in my experience. They usually call it "practicing for women".

On the flipside, this argument is more about how saying "women's sexuality is fluid" should NOT be an excuse to invalidate the sexualities of kinsey 6 or even kinsey 0 women. They exist as well and deserve to have their voices heard.

Just because I'm a woman doesn't mean -my- sexuality is fluid. And you in particular didn't argue that, but most people who say this kind of thing will do so (considering this is a lesbophobia thread).

 

I'm struggling with this a lot lately. Have you found any lesbian spaces? What are your thoughts on trans activists silencing or shutting down lesbian/gay voices?

 

What is a TERF?

 

Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist

A type of feminist that does not believe that trans women are real women.