Feminism: POVs

When it comes to issues like feminism we need to be careful not to generalise. I have heard feminists described in the most appalling terms and it only serves to perpetuate ill feeling and suspicion. In actual fact, it's precisely because of this that some feminists move to more radical positions. We must always pause to ask ourselves why anyone takes up a radical or extreme position on any issue, including feminism. Is it because moderation has achieved nothing (from their perspective)?

 

Before I properly respond, I just want to say I think you should be much more careful about how you characterise people you disagree with. Because if you don't engage accurately, you're not really engaging meaningfully at all. That creates anger and means you don't know where that response is coming from.

First, even in the worst case you present, you mustn't interpret click-bait youtube feminism as characteristic of the whole movement.

Second, I think what you're describing is a lot of women saying enough men commit enough offences to be scared and that enough men fail to respond to cultural trends which excuse sexual assault and other gender-based violence that it is a men's problem.

It'd be really helpful if you could give some examples of what you're referring to.

I'm going to take a leap and guess this is about the gender wage gap. The most important thing here to note is that most academic feminists do not claim that you will find clear examples of men and women in the exact same job receiving different pay.

What you will find backed by overwhelming statistical evidence is that women, as the primary caregivers in most families, are individually poorer because of the hindrance that creates for progressing through a workplace. That sacrifices like staying at home for months or years hit women hardest after divorce because the financial sacrifice they bear for their family is often not compensated if they end up on their own. That traditionally female jobs are paid less despite not being justified as less valuable forms of labour (say, a handyman compared to a cleaner), that women are structurally and culturally prevented from reaching senior levels, that high-paying professions often have toxic and sexist cultures that discourage women from staying.

That is much more complex and requires a lot of economic, sociological, political and family law theory to wrap your head around. A lot of people are likely to misunderstand the data surrounding feminist debates, regardless of their motive.

I'm not aware of the Hugh Mungus incident but I really think you should take a deep breath before deciding that Nazism is the best example.

Feminism isn't an organised body; even the word "movement" is a misnomer. Its adherents have vastly different views of the world, no means of coming to communal agreement and different beliefs about what principles and methods constitute feminism. When you deal with feminism, remember that no one person can be representative of the entire movement.

 

The LGBT community also has many flaws. Bisexuals telling gay people we're "shallow" and wrong for not dating the opposite sex. Gay men who are sexist against women and make lesbians/bi women feel unwelcome. Gay people who are biphobic and tell bi people they're just going through a phase. Gay/bi people who are transphobic and tell trans people they aren't the gender they are.

Being too "accepting" in our community to the point we're including people that don't face any LGBT rights issues. Stereotyping. Gay men shitting on lesbians and telling us they have it worse than us, even though we still face misogyny. Gay people who call everyone "queer" without asking if the person is comfortable with the word. LGBT people turning the community into certain political beliefs that other LGBT people disagree with, making us feel unwelcome if we don't share those politics. LGBT people who act overly sexualized and make our community extremely sexual; making more sexually conservative gay people (and asexuals) feel unwelcome. Invalidation of identities.

It goes on and on.

The point is that no community is perfect. I support feminism for what it originally stood for. There are extremists that do what you say, but not all of them think that way. We still have a lot of misogyny in our culture we have to combat, and sometimes I feel more safe in feminist communities than LGBT ones because of that.

Every group has extremists that hurt and say shitty things about other people. The LGBT community is no exception and no better than the "feminazis" I hear people complain about. Do some feminists hate men and say shit about them? Yes. Just like the LGBT says shit and hurts others in our OWN community.