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What's So Great About Being Immortal?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Numfarh, Jun 25, 2009.

  1. Numfarh

    Numfarh Guest

    The question pops into my head more often than most. Whenever I get to thinking about life and death, I begin to wonder what drives us, as human beings, to want to live past death. I mean, don't get me wrong, we all want more time. More time spent laughing, more time spent loving. But eternity is literally forever. Surely you wouldn't want to actually live until the end of time?

    I wanted to make this thread where we could calmly discuss whether you believe in an afterlife and why. I fully expect that not everyone will agree with everyone else. Variety is the spice of life. As long as no one takes personal offense to anything said, I'm quite certain we can hold a meaningful discussion.

    My opinion is as follows:

    For the greater part of my life, I believed that my loved ones were watching over me in heaven. I was certain that they were protecting me, that my older brother was my guardian angel. But now that I have moved past that point of my life, I feel that I am better equiped to deal with death. I no longer cling to hope that they are still alive in some way. They are gone and only the memories I have of them survive.

    When I divorced myself from religion, I found that the one thing keeping me from letting go was the thought that I would finally have to let go of so many friends and family members. It was difficult to think that my granddad wouldn't see my graduation or that my dog wasn't playing fetch in the clouds. It was hard to admit that the picture of Alex was nothing more than a picture. However, I now feel that acknowledging that they are gone shows more respect than justifying their death with a promise of eternal glory.

    I do not believe in life after death. I know that once I am dead I will be recycled into the earth and eventually into the cosmos. I have never been presented with evidence of an afterlife or a soul or something beyond the natural world. We are nothing more than atoms bumping around the 'verse and creating order from the chaos.


    Feel free to disagree. Feel free to agree. Just make sure you don't attach too many emotional strings. It is just the internet, after all.
     
  2. Greggers

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    I have my beliefs, and they are strong. I look around at the world and thats all the proof i need to know deep inside me that there is more to life than this earth. I am certain in my mind my life will go after at this one expires, the details of that i wont bother explaining though because a) its taken my entire lifetime to develop so far and will continue to and b) i dont need to talk about my faith to others who i know disagree with it and dont want to hear about it, its a personal thing for me no need to share and c) it would become a rant and i cant detach emotions from something thats emotional.

    And hey, if im wrong at least ill die thinking positive thoughts! If i believe im going to live on and i dont, my dead body isnt going to really ever going to find out it was all a lie. Id rather just cling to my ignorance if it is so than be "informed" that im really going to die. (I dont believe its just ignorance, just saying that to make a point)

    If you think otherwise, props to you for believing whatever you believe. Thats nice, and i would never try and convince you otherwise because thats just... annoying, and i would not want someone to do that to me. I just expect you to do the same and then we are fine. No reason we cant spend the time we have on earth in a positive way rather than bickering with what little time we have :slight_smile:

    "always look on the bright...side...of life, du do, du do , du do du do du do~"
     
  3. mattypants

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    im still stuck at what "living" is, let alone why people want to live forever, plus how cofortable people are with setting random/arbitrary rules for existance...

    i need to go to sleep xD
     
  4. djt820

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    Theres nothing to prove there is a afterlife. The after life was just some idea someone made up. No one can prove there is an afterlife because how many dead people do you see sharing their live with you? Its all an illusion. A fabrication. And its nothing but false hope just so people can say they have something to live for. Even life itself is an illusion. I dont wish to live forever. Life is just. Nothing more, nothing less. We are born, then we die. Thats all we know.
     
  5. Lychee

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    I quite agree. In my opinion the afterlife is something that was made up by people who simply couldn't accept the fact that their loved one is dead, and that they will never ever see them again. It's a lot easier just to say "oh, they've gone to a better place" and to fool yourself into believing that when you die everything will be magically better.

    When my dad died, I was 10, and everyone was giving me all this crap about how he was in "a better place" and "watching over me", and I was always thinking, "god these people are morons. He's dead. Dead. Not in a better place, simply cremated and his ashes buried underneath a rose bush at the cemetery. Of course, it'd be nice to see him again, however, it aint going to happen. Ever. Such is life.

    Unfortunately, the fact that I can't believe in heaven has made it harder in the past for me to accept and get over various deaths, the worst being my dog 4 and a half years ago. (Yes, I know, it sounds mean to say that it was harder to get over the death of my dog than my dad, but I kind of blocked out all feelings after my dad died, so when Ellee died it was like grieving for both, really) however now I'd say I have an extremely healthy attitude towards death. It's a fact of life. It's going to happen. Everyone will die. And we'll never see them again. And it is because of that that we should live life to the full, and not have any regrets. Because we only live once, and once we die, that's it.

    Okay, I have totally gone off in a random direction here, hope it makes sense.
     
  6. Eleanor Rigby

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    When I was younger, I used to think that death was the end of life and there was nothing after.

    My mum who is very religious believes in heaven. I always felt very uncomfortable with this idea that there was place out there, where we would be rewarded for what we have done or not during our life. I had the exact same trouble believing in hell : it seemed to me it was just tales, nice tales maybe, but tales.

    I used to talk about these things with my dad, who is not religious at all, and he used to say that he didn't believe in heaver or in hell, but that he wouldn't say that there is no life after death, because sometimes, he felt like if the loved ones he had lost were still around, like a invisible presence, or something in the air.

    I didn't really understood what he ment, until I lost 4 people I deeply loved in less than a year, and among them my best friend, who died when I was 23.

    I felt extremly angry after his death, because he died at a very young age and after two years of constant pain. On the moment, I still tought his death was the end of everything he had been, and I couldn't stand the idea that there was nothing that remains of him. Then, few weeks after his death, I started to have the feeling that he was still around in some way, and I started to understand what my father used to tell me.

    Then, I had that dream, I already talked about sevral times here. I dreamt that he came visit me at home, and thaht we did exactly what we used to do together (mostly making fools of ourselves for fun) and that just before he left he hugged me and told me he was fine and happy and I should stopped worrying.

    I never had been the same after that dream and I started to believe that he is in a place where he is fine and happy, and that single idea kept me going in tought times of my life.
    I am perfectly concious that it might be a tale I tell myself to cope with the pain this death caused me and that the dream I had is more likely a product of my brain than my friend visiting me to comfort me, but I decided that I choose to believe he is still there, somewhere, even if that somewhere is just that place in my heart where I cherish him.

    I'm not trying to conceptualize a heaven where he could be or anything like that, I'm just trying to enjoy the moments when I feel him and it doesn't matter if that's real or not : it's real for me.
     
    #6 Eleanor Rigby, Jun 26, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2009
  7. Ben

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    I read an argument once which says that existence (if real) after our current life on Earth takes on a different form and different way of understanding, such as time and space simply being our way of understanding the universe in this life, so perhaps eternity would not be experienced in the way that we would imagine. That's just a theory though.

    As for proof, some people say that near-death experiences and the paranormal are proofs of an afterlife. Of course not everyone believes in either of those and especially in the modern day we're not likely to believe in them unless we experience one or the other ourselves.

    I like to think that even if there is no real afterlife, we will live on through memories and our effects on other people and the world. I'm very agnostic but the thought of something else comforts me and has always done so.
     
  8. Dazed

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    first i must say this corina: thanks for making a thread i thought worthy of being active in(told you guys i was still lurking about)

    i believe many things when it come to death life and the after.

    i don't think there is a heaven. the concept has always been something that terrified me. a place i can only go if i'm good? that doesn't seem right. and only one person can judge me as good? even harder for me to understand. so if there is no heaven there must not be a hell. which would make all our "sins" not matter at all. and if you sins do not matter why do we all stress so much over the little things?

    i DO believe in angels. i was 4 when my great grandmother died. i have one memory of her. when i was i think around 16 i had my first real boyfriend. i thought it was love and then one night i was daydreaming or it might have been just a normal dream but she came and talked to me much like eleanor's dad. she told me that he is a bad guy and not faithful. when i woke up i was like...yeah right. but it felt so ...real. not like a dream at all. not even 2 days later a friend of mine and his let it slip that he was dating his best friend too. sometimes i've wondered if it was merely a coincident or if she really came but in my heart i know she did. it seems kind of odd to think that angels have nothing better to do then to talk to family members.

    ok the after life. i believe i have a soul. the reason i believe this is that if you ever look at a dead body of someone you know..it does not even seem like them. to me it is a empty shell of their former self. i personally think that my soul will be reborn in the next life. and what i will be in the next life is based on how i am in this life. in other words i base most my life on karma. i treat everyone with respect until they prove they do not deserve it. i believe fully on what goes around comes around.
     
    #8 Dazed, Jun 26, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2009
  9. Cool Beans

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    I personally believe in the basic Christian concept of heaven and hell, but I freely admit that there's absolutely no concrete proof of that or anything else on the spiritual level. I believe that heaven is essentially pleasant (although in what manner I do not know) and that hell is essentially... not pleasant (again, I profess no belief in the specifics). I mean, I figure it's not like in the movies, where heaven is just a happy version of Earth adorned in white and hell is hot and filled with red demons, but beyond that I don't know what I think it would be like.

    Jen brings up the issue of how you would get to either place if they existed. My belief in that again runs more toward the Christian idea of it, with the whole thing about accepting Jesus into your heart and being forgiven for your sins and all that. I could be wrong, but I guess we'll never know.
     
  10. The Enigma

    The Enigma Guest

    Hmm. I'll make a quick post for now but I'll also be quoting rather than using my own words for now as well.

    "Immortality? Eternal life, living just to live is not life; it is the accumulation of experience and nothing more."
     
  11. MusicIsLife

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    I do not know whether or not there is a heaven, but I do believe that there is life after death, and that the people we have lost watch over us. I can't count the amount of times I've had a near death/near fatal injury experience, and I'd look around afterwords and see a robin* standing there, watching me. I am convinced that those we love live on in nature, and keep a close eye on us in that form.

    * = my father's name was robin, so when i see one, I believe it's my dad keeping an eye on me :slight_smile:
     
  12. Ben

    Ben
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    Oh I need to add that I don't believe there can be a Hell (or at least an eternal one). Seeing as the aim of punishment is retribution, an eternal punishment giving no chance for retribution does not seem possible to me.
    When I asked an imam about the concept of Hell, he said that it was "God's way of stopping crime".
     
  13. jazzrawr

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    I don't believe in religion at all - I think it's corrupt, as a whole. But I am spiritual in a way.
    I agree that I don't think there is an afterlife. As much as I want to, for my mom's sake really, I don't. My mom believes in the afterlife, in ghosts and mediums and such. Maybe because my brother died, and she doesn't want to let go.
    But I think I believe in reincarnation.
    I kind of think a person's...not soul exactly...more like their essence, lives on in other bodies, other lives after they die. They go on to live different lives until they've done all they can for the world, and then they leave it to others.

    I don't know really. I'm still forming opinions, and no beleif can really be concrete - there's always an element of the unknown.
    Part of me sometimes is simply atheist, and thinks that when people die they are gone and that's that. But sometimes it's good to speculate.

    I know I don't belive in god as most religions portray it. I have a more nature-based view I suppose. Probably because my mom is Wiccan, so I've gotten it from her.

    Well, there's my two cents anyway.
     
  14. xequar

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    All good things must end.

    And that's even true of life.

    Once upon a time, I was a hardcore, dyed-in-the-wool evangelical Christian that believed in heaven and hell and all that, but a massive series of life-altering events shattered that faith and sent me wandering in search of my own answers. Now, I don't believe in heaven or hell or life after death. I don't really believe in reincarnation anymore. But, I do believe that the essense of who we are as a person (call it the soul or spirit if you like) sort of becomes part of the energy of the Universe. I believe the Universe has a certain spiritual (not the right word, but the best I can come up with) energy that is embodied in everyone and everything. I believe that we have a unique energy signature, and that we're most comfortable when we find places and people that have a compatible energy signature. At this point in my life, I'm staunchly against religion, as it seems to be that religion tramples upon one's own energy signature and individuality and all that it means to be a human being, and then it replaces those with its own brainwashing.

    That all said, like I said earlier, all good things must come to an end. I liken it to my college experience. I loved college, and I wouldn't trade that time in my life for anything. But, there came a point when it was time for me to finish, time for me to go. I could have delayed by taking more classes or studying abroad or changing majors, but had I done so, the friends I had made would have been gone. The people who lived in my building would have been gone. I would have needed to essentially make up a reason to be there instead of working toward a goal. Sure, I still would have been in college, but the experience would have dramatically changed, and for the worse. Instead, I finished my degree and bid a sad but very fond farewell to Ferris State University and set about on the next phase of my life. I still have the memories and the friends and the education and the experience, but no matter what I do, I can never duplicate that experience again, nor would I tarnish that original experience by trying to do so.

    And such is life in my view. As I always say, what's the point of life if you aren't going to live it? Life is something to enjoy and experience, not something to hoarde like an evil dragon guarding a treasure. So, I go forth and I live life. I have great friends. I'm dating the man of my dreams. I go gaming with my friends and get together for food and beer with other friends on Monday nights. I try microbrewed beers and occasionally brew an afternoon pot of coffee because I enjoy drinking coffee. My boyfriend and I walk down the street holding hands. We engage and indulge each others' fetishes, and we make passionate love.

    But at some point in time, that all will go away, and it will be like the end of my college years. There will be a host of experiences and memories and people that no matter how hard I tried, I could never duplicate, nor would I tarnish and taint those experiences and memories by trying to duplicate them. There will be a time when it's time to go, because to stick around any longer would simply serve to destroy and undo all that came before it.

    And when that point comes, then it'll be time to move on to the next phase of my existence and the next great adventure, and like any major change and the start of any great adventure, I ultimately have no idea what it will entail...
     
  15. Jose Carioca

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    I disregard the Christian faith as immoral and illogical. The bible was enough proof for me to know that it was all conceived by the minds of men. Just because you "have a feeling", or you "feel that something is true" does not make it so. Wanting something to be true does not make it.
     
  16. lostinthought9

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    You basically said what I was going to say...

    I do believe in life after death. I just can't believe that we're "nothing" after we die.
     
  17. Selqet

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    If I had to choose a label, I suppose I'd go with "agnostic," on the basis of the fact that there is currently no way to prove, nor is there any way to disprove, any concept of the soul, reincarnation, life after death, or an Entity Greater Than Ourselves.

    I grew up in the Christian faith, and for awhile I was a devout follower. I'm not gonna get into the details of it here, but eventually I just felt it all left a bad taste in my mouth, so to speak. And while I have many friends of many faiths who are all really wonderful people, generally speaking I dislike most organized religion.

    So, being an agnostic, most of my current thoughts are very scientific method (i.e. can neither prove nor disprove), very logical, rational. But part of me does still think that while I cannot PROVE the existence of something else or that something happens to us when we leave, that it is probable that something does. Science doesn't know everything, and can't explain everything. At least, not yet, and I don't see us being able to for perhaps a few more centuries. And when you see a dead body, be it human or animal, it does seem to be just an object, no longer a living being, might as well be a rock. Something definitely seems to have left. And, as energy can neither be created nor destroyed, I think the existence of a soul or spirit and therefore of some sort of existence past death to be even more probable than that of some sort of deity.

    Either way, I figure I'll either find out when I die and see whats on the other side, or die and cease caring because I no longer exist. Of course, having "the next great adventure" ahead does appeal more to my curiosity than "death. the end."

    My beliefs still aren't really solidified much yet. They've changed a lot in even just the last ten years, they'll probably shift a bit in the ones coming up.

    Anyway, my two cents.
     
  18. Blaz

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    From what I've seen, it seems like both ways are ways of running from something. . .perhaps dealing with pain.

    Some may find it easier to believe in something, to believe loved ones, or whatever they hold dear, are still close and within reach. It keeps them from hurting and coming to terms with the fact that a person or loved one is gone.

    At the same time, some may find it easier to move on with their own lives and treat the deaths of those close to us as commonplace(isn't it?), or flee to another mode of self-perceived comfort, as to distance themselves from loved ones and pain.

    Deep down, we all are running from our pain, disguising it from things and hiding it in ways it is difficult for us to understand by ourselves.

    I cannot say what conclusions I have reached, however, because I feel that too many times predisposition of such things has ruined discussions. . .
     
  19. Numfarh

    Numfarh Guest

    This kind of mentality absolutely baffles me. No matter how many times I try to understand it, it seems to escape my grasp. These couple of questions are directed to people who only began believing in an afterlife/soul after a series of events in their lives (ie. you believe now, but you didn't always). Also, I'm just using Eleanor's quote because the explaination of her conversion caught my eye. I'm not directly targeting anyone, so put those rifles down!

    1. Why would you want to live a life of ignorance? I mean, let's say that this world is all we have to experience, why would you compromise your time by believing in falsehoods and fairytales? It strikes me as very similar to the Truman Show when they make a last ditch effort to make him stay in this fantasy world. They try to persuade him that it's alright to live without knowing all that you can. I personally do not like being fooled or tricked by anyone (myself included).

    2. What made you change your mind? I've been talking to quite a few people who have been trying to convince me that I am closeminded because of my skepticism. They use the argument that they were once skeptics too until something happened to them (a dream, a ghosty, a bright light or what have you). I can see how death can cause a fundamental change in someone's life, but I don't see how that could change your mind about the truth of life after death.

    3. Why is it more comforting to think a loved one is still watching you? I mean, I'm pretty much a million percent sure that if my various family members/friends were watching me, they would be seeing certain things that... well, they should remain private. :lol: When I believed that my older brother was my guardian angel, I created countless loops and explainations for what he could see, could do. It was all very complicated and slightly ridiculous, considering he was a baby when he died.

    4. Which brings me to my final question (for the time being). When someone dies, if you believe in heaven, are they in heaven at the age they died? Or do they revert back to an earlier age? In the case of babies, do they gain self-awareness when in heaven?

    :icon_wink
    Those are just some of the thoughts that bumped around in my head when reading through this thread. Now that we have some points of view, let's actually discuss them.
     
  20. ANightDude

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    I recently began to wonder about the afterlife. Personally, I don't believe hell exists.

    I do, however, believe there is something after death, but I wouldn't really call it "heaven". Couldn't it be possible that it's just what we want, maybe? Couldn't life after death just be a world where everything is the way you want. Not anyone else, just you. There's an interesting theory.

    I believe in ghosts and whatnot, so that also could be, as someone else said, a sign of the afterlife. After seeing I few, I'm sure it's something with the afterlife, unless the house just has issues letting go. :/

    I don't believe religion or science can tell us whats in the afterlife, we just have to wait and see.

    So