a critique on being homosexual.

I've actually been thinking about the effimanate part a bit lately. It seems to me that many people want to be flashy and comfortable; The only problem is that people are uncomfortable being flashy or different in how they act or dress. On a different note, when you accept you are gay, you accept that you are different. You are jump started into being different and not caring what others might be thinking. So what the heck if you wear a flashy light purple shirt? You know that you can be different because you can accept you are gay. I can easily see a correlation not only between if you are gay and how you dress, but also with your actions. The "I dont care what they think" attitude kicks in, and you act and dress however you want.

 

I've thought about this a lot, because I'm not a flamboyant person, and it always made me a little uncomfortable. However, I completely disagree that the reason many gay men are able to act and dress the way they do is because of an "I don't care what they think" mentality; in fact, I believe it's the exact opposite.

Think about when you entered highschool. There was such pressure to fit in, to act like everyone else, dress like everyone else. Eventually, towards the end of highschool, or in college, most people are able to break free of these self-imposed stereotypes, and they are able to accept who they really are (if you care at all, in Shakespeare's King Lear, the character Edward finds himself going through this exact journey, if you're interested). It's a little different for us gay guys, because we have to try to conform to society first, then we have to break free of that persona, at which point we can start to feel comfortable with ourselves to come out. Once we come out though, I think we find ourselves in a highschool like situation again. You want to fit in, you want to belong. God forbid you wear a plaid button down to a your local gay bar, you have to be the most fabulous one there! or if not the most fabulous, just fabulous enough not to get looks of rejection for not being fabulous enough. A lot of guys buckle under this pressure.

I have this friend, and he came out, prior to coming out he was your typical run of the mill guy... not a jock or hyper masculine or anything, just your run of the mill guy. Anyway, he came out and a month or two later I ran into him. He was one step away from being a drag queen... he had was wearing the tightest jeans I've ever seen, thong sandals, a pucci print silk shirt, a little mascara, and to top it off, he had a limp wrist and a self imposed lisp. I was in shock. Seeing him like that seemed forced.... you could tell he wanted to fit in, and that it wasn't who he really was.

Now I'm rambling... I'd better stop... sorry.

 

I Believe both Hawkeye and JonB are correct.

I think the 'I dont care about what you think' opinion would have been more based upon the origin of the stereotype (along with the idea of a gay male taking the place of a straight female).

Now days the situation is very much like JonB described. The pressure to fit in is overwhelming throughout society, and while most of us 'start out fresh' after highschool (different friends, carees etc) for homosexuals, the fact that they *are* homosexual never changes. Therefore they are locked into this stereotype and want to fit in.

Also, this stereotype is well known and partially encourage by the straight community. My friend asked me the other day if we could go clothes shopping and if she could choose clothes and I'd try them on. When I told her that I really didnt want to go clothes shopping she said 'Oh why not? You're gay though, you're *supposed* to like shopping and fashion!'

Because the stereotype is well known throughout both the gay and straight communities, anyone knows that by acting or dressing this way, they will be labelled 'gay'. Lots of people have experienced a great sense of pride towards being homosexual after coming out to family and friends, and for this reason, want to tell the world of their sexuality. One way they do this is to act the way 'a gay person does'.

Anyway, these are just a few of the reasons I come up with when I think about it

Dave

 

I aggree with pretty much *all* that's been said.
And this is *my* experience [rather, story].
[This from someone who isn't out yet. Not really]

All my life I've been inside this bubble. This force-field I created, and shrunk around myself, tighter when I'd commit an 'offense'. I acted as 'normal' as I could.
The way I talk. The way I walk.
I always try to be casual.
No female manerisms whatsoever.

It wasn't so much for my fear of being found out, but more so of the fact that I dislike certain types of effeminism. My best friend is SO feminine in so many aspects, yet, he's straight. I just see it as his having grown up with older-big-sisters, and having imprinted on their ways. I had another friend in high school, and he was also very feminine. Even more so than the other. He also had two older sisters. [one whom I had a crush on for a while].
He even talked in a certain way sometimes.
But no-one ever called *him* gay. I never once heard the remarks 'Queer!' or 'Fag!' used against him.
Me, on the other hand, was once accused so. Why?? Because I was shy? Because I *tried* to sink back in the background?
Is it because he didn't care what ppl thought - but... didn't *ACT* that way? [as in, enforced it]. He was just naturally carefree. He was himself.
On the other hand - were ppl seeing through my 'forced shell'??
>.<

{tangent: There's one thing I hate - that is being the centre of attention in a room.
Doesn't matter if it's only 20 ppl or 200. I don't like it.
And I automatically blush. Not from embarassment as such, but from feeling everyone staring at me.}

Anyway. I always tried to act as 'manly' as I could. Why?
Because I don't like to see a man acting like a woman.
And now, let me explain myself. There's such a thing as male-feminine and female-feminine manerisms.
A guy can be effeminate [take my two friends], and still look like a guy.
But a guy can *also* act in a way that CLEARLY gives him the 'look' of a [as I put it]
"Female trapped in a male body" person.
And that's the one I dislike.
I don't know why. Maybe because it's disturbing/unsettling to me on some level. But... it just doesn't... *feel* right.
You may aggree/disaggree. But ponder for a second, on my '2 manerism' theory.
Think about ppl you've seen/know/dealt with.
Isn't it *true*??

[Sidenote: This is kinda hypocritical to some point, I guess, but. You get me, a guy, impersonating 'moments' from movies, like Lucy Liu in Charlies Angels ("Can anyone, <i>show</i> me?) or even, when I was younger, the characters/things from the American version of Sailor Moon. Doesn't/wouldn't that just SCREAM effeminate?
Maybe I just am a little, but afraid to show it?]

 

That's a really good point and I definitely think that's partly it. If you're queer, you're already transgressive just by dint of being queer, so I think a lot of gay people do actually say, "Why the fuck not?"

 

The whole way people acculturate to being gay once they come out is fascinating to me. I have definitely seen tons of "run of the mill guys" become pretty outwardly radical in their appearance and mannerisms. But if you think about it, a lot of teenagers do exactly the same thing. I don't think it's a necessarily an exclusively gay thing, I think it's a subculture thing and a belonging thing.

But yeah... if you think about gay people, they spend ALL their lives not really fitting in or at least feeling like they don't. So is it any wonder that once a lot of them come out they get really extreme trying to fit in because they've FINALLY found the place they (think they) fit? And then the fact that the fitting in follows extremely stereotyped notions of what gay people are "supposed" to be like? It's not that surprising, really, if you consider how we grow up in a society where everyone is telling us how to be... and there are all those forces acting on gay people and setting up these notions of how they're "supposed" to be.

What I always find so disturbing is that so few people seem to be anything approaching CONSCIOUS of it. I mean, we all wear our costumes and masks and play our different roles in life but what freaks me out is the people who go to extremes and don't seem to have given it any thought at all... they've just blindly kinda recreated themselves in a pretty dramatic way and they don't seem to have actually ever stopped to say, "Hey wait a second... is this what I want?"

But to get to the original topic, I don't think that many gay people are effeminate or superficial. I just think the ones that are are the ones we all notice. Because it's flashier. I know plenty of middle of the road gay guys who aren't any more shallow than some of the straight people I know or hear about. I think it's just easy to see the negative aspects of gay people because those stereotypes are so deeply ingrained in us.

And I know I say this all the time but I'd rather a guy was more fem than he was macho. It's just always seemed more balanced to me. Modern masculinity is still so rigid, though thankfully that's changing.

 

i only read through the first 4 or so replies, so idk if this has been said already or not...

a lot of psychological theories based on sexuality and gender identification have helped explain (to me) why people are the way they are.

sure, nature vs nurture should be taken into account, but this makes a lot of sense if you think about it...

people are attracted to personalities and characteristics in which they lack (<i>everybody knows..opposites attract</i>)...it's all with the chemistry in the brain. if you are a woman, and you are say a "femme," chances are your estrogen levels are higher than that of a more masculine homosexual female, and therefore find yourself attracted to such womenz. same goes for guys. it's all a balance.

though there are definitely cases outside this black and white box, there's a section of the brain which holds your estrogenz and testosteronez. this part of the brain holds muchos influence on gender identification and sexuality.

maybe this has something to do with the flamboyancy of males (of the homosexual genus) one comes across?

 

the stereotype is ridiculous.

As a flamboyant gay, I can say that to be honest, I don't enjoy the fact that I fit the stereotype, because it's just WHO I AM.

I like fashion. I like Britney Spears. Pink is my favorite color. And I can shake it on the dance floor.

Except for liking pink, I did all those things even BEFORE I came out.
My family, (Not my parents though) are constantly lecturing me on how I shouldn't
act like a femmy gay and how I should be more masculine, because thats what REAL GAY MEN are like and I'm not a real gay man. Oh and that, REAL GAY MEN don't like feminine guys. And that I'm acting the way I do for attention. NOT the case. If I could stop, I would.

And besides, obviously some men like feminine gay, cause my bed is rarely empty. x;

THERES NOT always a REASON guys act this way. SO THERE.

 

Closed - VERY old thread.