Something in school that later bothered me

[Holmes]

I had a good English teacher for my Junior Cert years (equivalent of Middle School cycle), not quite John Keating, but in that model. You know the type you're lucky to get, who will push you to be interested in literature and to do well.

But there was something he said that annoyed me in retrospect. When we were studying Funeral Blues (the one read at the funeral in Four Weddings and a Funeral), he said he was pleased with our class, because no one was immature enough to ask "Is he gay?", telling us that there was such thing as platonic love, but that he was sure that someone in the other class would ask. But W. H. Auden, author of the poem, was in fact gay, he described his two-year relationship with another poet as a marriage, so it would have been a perfectly reasonable question, and of course our teacher knew that. It's strange as well as annoying looking back on it, as he was quite liberal in politics, and would occasionally have said something like "When you're older and with a woman... or a man, we should be open-minded..." (it was an all-boys school).

[Ben]

I think it's odd how people say that any gay love in poetry is platonic. It's like they can't accept that there are gay poems out there. Like Shakespeare's fair youth sonnets. If they were written about women, it wouldn't be doubted that they were about love for her. But because they're written for a man, lots of people say that the love in them is platonic. :/

[Apocalypte]

Originally Posted by Holmes

I had a good English teacher for my Junior Cert years (equivalent of Middle School cycle), not quite John Keating, but in that model. You know the type you're lucky to get, who will push you to be interested in literature and to do well.

But there was something he said that annoyed me in retrospect. When we were studying Funeral Blues (the one read at the funeral in Four Weddings and a Funeral), he said he was pleased with our class, because no one was immature enough to ask "Is he gay?", telling us that there was such thing as platonic love, but that he was sure that someone in the other class would ask. But W. H. Auden, author of the poem, was in fact gay, he described his two-year relationship with another poet as a marriage, so it would have been a perfectly reasonable question, and of course our teacher knew that. It's strange as well as annoying looking back on it, as he was quite liberal in politics, and would occasionally have said something like "When you're older and with a woman... or a man, we should be open-minded..." (it was an all-boys school).

By any chance was this a Catholic school? (Going to make the assumption here that you're in Ireland) If it was, his personal opinion may have been different to what he is allowed to say in class about it.

[littledinosaurs]

Originally Posted by Invisible

I think it's odd how people say that any gay love in poetry is platonic. It's like they can't accept that there are gay poems out there. Like Shakespeare's fair youth sonnets. If they were written about women, it wouldn't be doubted that they were about love for her. But because they're written for a man, lots of people say that the love in them is platonic. :/

But isn't the problem with Shakespeare's sonnets that he used to get hired to write poetry about/for people so there is a thin line between these are his feelings and these are feelings of someone he is writing for / about?

[Ben]

I was always under the impression that he wasn't hired to write the sonnets for the young man. Idk though maybe he was.

[littledinosaurs]

Originally Posted by Invisible

I was always under the impression that he wasn't hired to write the sonnets for the young man. Idk though maybe he was.

hahah I think it's hard to say either way and that's why nobody knows for sure. *shrug*
we talked about it briefly in my Masterpieces of British Literature class, and yes ben there is a class devoted to british lit here =)

[Étoile]

Originally Posted by littledinosaurs

hahah I think it's hard to say either way and that's why nobody knows for sure. *shrug*
we talked about it briefly in my Masterpieces of British Literature class, and yes ben there is a class devoted to british lit here =)

Where I live, 12th Grade English aka British Literature is required. And I thought American Literature was torture.

[littledinosaurs]

Originally Posted by Étoile

Where I live, 12th Grade English aka British Literature is required. And I thought American Literature was torture.

awee i liked both Modern American lit and British lit!
but they both were not required classes at my school.

[Étoile]

At my school, the English dept. is very limited. 9th-10th English is general. 11th Grade English= Amer. Lit. AP Lang and AP Lit. No creative writing class. Must take Oral Presentation class in 12th grade if you finish English before.

Sorry for hijaking your thread Holmes. The teacher may have had a strict handbook of what to say or not to say. Did you ever talk about homosexuality in that class or any other classes?

I personally enjoyed World Literature more so than British or American Lit. My teachers in the World Lit were more liberal. Not so dry and stuff as the Brit or American Lit teachers. Maybe your teacher couldn't tell you his personal opinion but what was it believed by scholars at this time.

[Holmes]

Originally Posted by Apocalypte

By any chance was this a Catholic school? (Going to make the assumption here that you're in Ireland) If it was, his personal opinion may have been different to what he is allowed to say in class about it.

Actually, now that I think of it, that could be the case. I didn't get the impression from the school that there was any real policy, but he might have just been playing it safe, or maybe there was and I didn't know about it. I don't remember homosexuality being discussed at all when I was there. And the only sex ed we had was an American group who came in to tell us about the virtues of chastity.

Originally Posted by Invisible

I think it's odd how people say that any gay love in poetry is platonic. It's like they can't accept that there are gay poems out there. Like Shakespeare's fair youth sonnets. If they were written about women, it wouldn't be doubted that they were about love for her. But because they're written for a man, lots of people say that the love in them is platonic. :/

I do find it amusing sometimes how resistant people are to call historical figures gay. If someone were to write Shakespeare's sonnets today, of course they'd be called gay. And some of his comedies do like to play around with gender a bit. I'm sure the Elizabethan stage was full of gay men, not just in the same way as theatre these days, but it was a place where they could get away with publicly snogging another boy .

[Apocalypte]

Originally Posted by Holmes

And the only sex ed we had was an American group who came in to tell us about the virtues of chastity.

We had a very similar group doing a full-day workshop on chastity with us in Transition Year, I found it very hard not to crack up laughing at half the crap they were on about.