Abortion - hypothetical discussion

[Pseudojim]

I was chatting with a chick friend of mine about abortion, and specifically whether or not it is acceptable or ethical for the man in the relationship to suggest that the woman get an abortion or not. Thoughts?

Personally, if i knocked up some girl, there is no way i could ever encourage an abortion, even if i wanted her to have one. Reason being, if she does get one and regrets the decision for the rest of her life, it was my selfish suggestion that caused major mental anguish. My friend disagrees and says i have the right to suggest what i would prefer her to do... thoughts?

[haelmarie]

It takes two to make a baby, and it would be just as much the hypothetical male's baby as the female's, so I say definitely a man should be able to suggest an abortion to a female.

Of course, there's a fine line between talking seriously about the prospect of abortion and "Bitch, if you don't get an abortion imma smack you upside the head!" Furthermore, I think your guilt is a demeaning to the woman as a mature and separate person capable of making her own decisions. You shouldn't feel guilty for having a heart-to-heart on the prospect. The choice is ultimately up to the woman, and (providing that she is and adult of the legal age, she should be able to make her own decision without this silly androcentric nonsense of blaming the man.

[Pseudojim]

Originally Posted by haelmarie

It takes two to make a baby, and it would be just as much the hypothetical male's baby as the female's, so I say definitely a man should be able to suggest an abortion to a female.

Of course, there's a fine line between talking seriously about the prospect of abortion and "Bitch, if you don't get an abortion imma smack you upside the head!" Furthermore, I think your guilt is a demeaning to the woman as a mature and separate person capable of making her own decisions. You shouldn't feel guilty for having a heart-to-heart on the prospect. The choice is ultimately up to the woman, and (providing that she is and adult of the legal age, she should be able to make her own decision without this silly androcentric nonsense of blaming the man.

i would have absolutely no problem discussing the prospect of an abortion with the woman and giving her my take on it. I would also have no problem discussing the prospect of having and raising the child and giving her my take on that.

but i have absolutely no right to make a suggestion which could even slightly emotionally coerce her decision making process. To do so is unethical and unfair.

for the record i also think it would be equally wrong to suggest that she keep it.

It depends on many different things. And obviously, the woman's reaction to the pregnancy is key.

If she seems excited, probably not the best plan to suggest that she terminate. However, if she seems unhappy or really worried, I think it would be a good idea to tell her that she can make the choice. You will support her decision no matter which conclusion she comes. This support should be without bias (no pro-life or pro-choice rants). Even if you don't believe that life begins at birth, it's ignorant to claim that the fetus is 'just a blob of tissue'. There are some far more complicated mechanisms at work than just cell replication!

And just so ya'll know my opinion, I believe personhood begins after the cerebral cortex is established at 20-24 weeks. This also tends to coincide with viability. This is where I draw my 'chosen' abortion line until further developmental research can help me refine my opinions.

In conclusion, encouragement is never appropriate. You can suggest the abortion to allow her to view all her options, but it is better to just be the support system.

[Pseudojim]

Originally Posted by Numfarh

In conclusion, encouragement is never appropriate. You can suggest the abortion to allow her to view all her options, but it is better to just be the support system.

agreed wholeheartedly.

[Black Cat]

I personally don't find it appropriate to suggest, I don't have a uterus so I can't go around telling people what to do with their's. If the couple is not ready for a child and realizes that they cannot financially, emotionally, or physically support a child then they would have to discuss all the options out there, but I would never go so far as to push my views on the woman who would be carrying my child. I’d wait for her to breach the subject of abortion first.

If she were willing to get one, having brought it up to me and us decided upon getting one together, I would without a doubt help her in paying for it, taking care of her afterwards, etc.

[haelmarie]

Is it okay to suggest that your pregnant partner have an abortion?

The question is okay to suggest the option. Yes, it is okay to suggest it. I don't believe it's alright to bear down on the hypothetical woman or try to coerce or threaten her to have an abortion because you don't want to pay child support. Like I said, this baby is just as much yours as it hers, so the decision should receive input from both sides.

but i have absolutely no right to make a suggestion which could even slightly emotionally coerce her decision making process. To do so is unethical and unfair.

God. I realize that the woman is in a vulnerable state, but she's not a child or some fragile little daffodil stuck under her man's thumb. In the end, the decision is up to her as a logical being. As the parent of the child, the male has a responsibility to voice their opinion, as long as it is not emotionally manipulative or abusive.

[Pseudojim]

In the end, the decision is up to her as a logical being. As the parent of the child, the male has a responsibility to voice their opinion, as long as it is not emotionally manipulative or abusive.

i completely agree. i would have no problem discussing my own reluctance or otherwise about becoming a father. being honest and providing all the information so she knows as much as possible to make her own decision, yes. But saying "i think you should do (X)", that's where coercion begins.

[haelmarie]

Ok. Let's try a different tact.

I think we can take it for granted that abortion was a measure introduced to ensure gender equality, right? And the point of gender equality is that both women and men are treated pretty much equally. So if a man takes part in the procreative process, should he not get a say into the fate of a baby who's genetic material is partially his? Of course the woman should get the final say, as it is her body that the fetus is forming in and will eventually come out of. But it seems unfair to suggest that a man should not take part in the decision, and make his views on the subject known.

Back on the subject of gender equality, this ridiculous notion that a woman will do whatever her man suggests to her. I find this offensive. I can't speak for women, but if I were in that situation, I would want my partner to be completely honest with me with exactly what their view was. Let's say that you don't tell her you want to keep the baby, and she goes and aborts it - she's going to be the one feeling guilty in the end. So I find this "chivalrous" notion that the decision should be left 100% to the woman sexist and ridiculous.

[Pseudojim]

You can talk about gender equality all you like, but the fact is the sexes are different. Women can grow fetuses, men cannot. The psychological fact that a living human is growing inside you is something no man can ever experience. The physical and emotional trauma of an abortion is an ordeal that no man will ever undergo. I agree with the sentiment that the man should have a role in the decision making process. But again, not in the form of "you should X". And i would be completely honest in representing my view.

But at the end of the day, the decision rests with the woman. This is not a result of chivalry in my case, but of sheer common sense. It IS her body.

[haelmarie]

I don't think this is really going anywhere. If we're going to debate, you're going to have to refute my points directly instead of providing a blanket comment. If you'd rather just drop it, that's fine by me as well.

By the way, please don't take this personally if I'm coming off a little strong. I really appreciate that you made a thread like this.

[Pseudojim]

that was not a blanket comment, it was a direct and clear opposing position. Gender equality is to some degree an oxymoron.

However, it seems to me as though we agree anyway and are arguing the same point with regard to the decision making. (your quote: "Of course the woman should get the final say" seems equivalent to my quote "But at the end of the day, the decision rests with the woman.". We are saying the same thing in different ways.)

This, however...

this ridiculous notion that a woman will do whatever her man suggests to her. I find this offensive.

is a complete misunderstanding of what i have been saying all along. I don't know where you perceived that notion, but it certainly wasn't from me.

Please don't accuse my of employing obfuscating tactics. It's simply not the case.

[NickT]

I don't have ovaries. I don't have a uterus. Therefore, I have no right to tell a woman to not get an abortion. It's entirely her choice.

[Pseudojim]

lol

this'll lighten the mood

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXIk696BlVg

[haelmarie]

Originally Posted by Pseudojim

You can talk about gender equality all you like, but the fact is the sexes are different. Women can grow fetuses, men cannot. The psychological fact that a living human is growing inside you is something no man can ever experience. The physical and emotional trauma of an abortion is an ordeal that no man will ever undergo. I agree with the sentiment that the man should have a role in the decision making process. But again, not in the form of "you should X". And i would be completely honest in representing my view.

I hate to get into semantics, but we're going around in circles here.

sug⋅gest  [suhg-jest, suh-]
–verb (used with object)
1. to mention or introduce (an idea, proposition, plan, etc.) for consideration or possible action: The architect suggested that the building be restored.

That doesn't mean "you should/should not get an abortion".

I don't know. This selection I just took is a contradiction of your first post. If you changed the question to "Does a man have the right to decide (or demand) whether or not a woman should get an abortion?", than I would say no. But the question uses the word suggest. There's a big difference.

[Pseudojim]

That's a good point, i have no issue with semantics, i think the wording of things is very important. When i wrote suggest, i was thinking something along the lines of saying

"i think you should get an abortion"

perhaps i should have used the word "urge"

----------

hmm no, urge is too strong... not sure of the word i am looking for

[sexyalex]

If she wants to keep it, and I dont. Its simple. She can raise the child alone.

There is no raising a baby with half hated feelings. I learnt the hard way. (trust me, I am a bastard child)
Its best if the baby is not born than raised with hatred.

[George]

Originally Posted by Numfarh

In conclusion, encouragement is never appropriate. You can suggest the abortion to allow her to view all her options, but it is better to just be the support system.

I cbf blabbing on about something already posted, so basically, this.

[littledinosaurs]

Everyone should be open to all suggestions, and if they find it offensive they shut it down after hearing it and life goes on.

[Greggers]

Can we have a third poll option of "No Stance"?

As a gay man i feel i have no say in this argument.

I cant tell a pregnant woman having an abortion is wrong or right. I am completely neutral on the subject, because even if i had an opinion one way or the other i would not voice it because i feel thats just simply not an area i should.