1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

age

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by JonB321, Sep 9, 2005.

  1. JonB321

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Hey, I was wondering what you guys thought about this. Recently I've been going out to a lot of gay clubs, and one of the things I've noticed is a lot of older men, like in their 40's, are standing around hitting on the youngest guys possible. The other night, me and my friends were just standing around drinking, and some 40 year old started hitting on my 19 year old friend, who looks like he's 14 (don't ask me how they let him into clubs, I guess he's just that cute :wink: ). Either way, the guy wouldn't leave my friend alone, and it was kind of creepy, especially since my friend was plied with alcohol. Do you guys think that's weird? 40 year olds hitting on kids who could be their own children! Besides which, does it make it pedophilia if my friend looks 14... because I think it does. It really weirds me out that older guys are hitting on guys 20 or 30 years younger, especially since without gay marriage, there's no way to steal all their money! :eusa_naug (I was just kidding there... sort of... :wink: ). Let me know what you guys think.
     
  2. I think it seems creepy at first, but then I think about it more and realize that cute 18-30 y/o guys are hot no matter how old the viewer is. If you think someone's attractive and you want to get to know him, why not? I think it's good for the older guy to have the balls to approach your friend. He shouldn't write himself off just b/c he's older.

    And I don't think there's anything wrong w/ being attracted to young-looking boys. I think it's a good thing that we have a law that protects underaged people for sure. But if a guy who likes that young look finds an of-age person who looks really young, I'm happy that he found his ideal, and I think he should go for it!
     
  3. joeyconnick

    joeyconnick Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,069
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Pedophilia is sex with children, and however much it might seem weird to Americans, 14-year-olds aren't generally counted as "children" but rather 'teenagers." That being said, pedophilia is more about power (and the abuse thereof) than it is about sex.

    The age of consent is 14 in Canada, so even if your friend actually were 14, in Canada the situation you describe wouldn't be illegal.

    Besides all that, youth is a highly promoted commodity in Western culture and that doesn't exclude in gay culture. Some might even say the whole "youth == super-good" is more prevalent in gay culture than in mainstream culture. So it's never surprised me that older guys hit on younger guys.

    What surprises me is that older guys seem to think they can find a long-term relationship with younger guys. Younger guys are generally more prone to being inexperienced when it comes to relationships and are generally in VASTLY different places in their lives than their older counterparts. There's a lot to be said for the charm of youth but overall I would have to say I'd be doubtful that a relationship between a generic 20-year-old and a generic 40-year-old can work in the long term. Not so much because of the "generation gap" but more because the 20-year-old might still be living at home or going to school, which is quite a different existence from working to provide for yourself.

    Now of course, there is no rule stating that 40somethings (or 30somethings) are mature when it comes to relationships, so you could have a mature 20something being a good match for an immature 30/40something. But overall I don't think it's all that useful for people beyond their 20s to throw themselves at people in their early 20s.

    Keeping all that in mind, I'm 31 and I find a lot of 18-year-olds really hot. I don't think of them as overall good relationship possibilities but they definitely appeal to me. So... I don't know... does that make me creepy? I'd like to think no... I have several other friends around my age who think the same thing. I think the creepy part comes into play when you actively seek out a relationship with someone that much younger than you. Now, I'm not going to turn away some younger guy who is into me... but I would be unable to say our age difference hadn't occurred to me as a complicating factor. And I would definitely be more wary of someone who was quite a bit younger or older than me as a potential boyfriend.

    I should probably disclaim that my first serious boyfriend when I was 21 was 29... and I certainly didn't find him creepy--I found him incredibly hot. And the fact that I knew that some people "wouldn't approve" actually made the whole thing hotter, to be quite honest. And it's possible, looking back at it, that one of the reasons he was into me was because I was a pretty young 21 but you know, overall, that doesn't bug me. People are into who they're into and if both parties are okay with it, ultimately, should we have a say? Unless it's quite obvious that there's some kind of abuse of power, I think people should be left to their own devices. We might not be wholeheartedly in favour of it but relationships come in many, many strange forms. And in the case of my older boyfriend, I wasn't abused in any way I didn't want to be.

    :icon_lol:
     
  4. goratrix

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    519
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hmmm, and there I was all worried about having a crush on a 15 y.o being 19 myself... it really puts things in perspective.

    Personally I don't like older guys, but if someone does, I won't judge them. I mean... I am here because I'm different and i don't like being judged, so I won't do that to anyone for no reason.

    Other than that... the only difference I see is maturity, and that is relative (as everything)... so it depends and it should all be evaluated in a per case basis...
     
  5. Aaron

    Aaron Guest

    It happens all the time. Just be careful. There comes a point in men's lives where they have to realize that their days of fucks with 19 year olds are over, and they should start looking for men their own age. Unfortunately, most men come to this realization a little late. Just ignore them, and if your riend is too drunk to ignore them, then you make it clear for him, that it's not happening.
     
  6. joeyconnick

    joeyconnick Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,069
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Well, "older" can also be relative, at least in terms of appearances. Obviously the chronology isn't really up for debate but I have a 50-year-old friend who people mistake for being in his 30s. So when people say they don't like "older" people, I wonder what they mean (and suspect it's usually that they don't like the visible signs of "being older"). Which is... understandable and a feeling I've been known to share but I do tend to think that a lot of people's tendencies to reject "older" people (and this includes mine) is because of how we've been programmed by society and not something that is simply "natural."

    I look younger than my age in that people often mistake me for being in my early 20s. It's been somewhat of a curse along with a blessing just because when I talk with people who are in their early 20s, they're like all chatty, blah blah blah, what do you do, etc. And then the subject of age comes up (which strangely enough, somehow always manages to come up, now that I think of it) and I don't lie about how old I am because while it may be a touchy subject for me, I'm not ashamed of being 31 and I'm certainly not ashamed of the last ten years of my life, which were pretty formative years. Anyway, so I say, "I'm 31," get a variety of (the "appropriate") disbelieving reactions, and then it's like *foosh* I'm off the radar. It's not like I then don't get talked to but you can definitely tell I get classed into the "other" category extremely quickly, which is totally bogus because of course I haven't changed from how I was when they thought I was in my early 20s.

    Let's just say it's made me think a lot about perceptions, labels, how we treat certain pieces of personal information about people, ageing, ageism, etc.

    But I think Goratrix's point that things should be taken on a case-by-case basis is a really good one. Because frankly, there are some 18/38 relationships that I'm sure are dandy, and I'm sure there's variations on them where the 18-year-old is being taken advantage of and also where the 38-year-old is being taken advantage. We just tend to assume that only the younger party can be taken advantage of, and that with such an age difference, there's always an imbalance of the older person having more power than the younger. I don't think it's always quite so simple.

    In the "Goratrix case," (*grin*), where you have a 19/15 situation, obviously in a lot of the world that's illegal. With respect to how arbitrary our notions of "legal" and "appropriate" are, though, it wouldn't be in Canada (or some European nations if I recall correctly) (unless the older person were in an official position of trust or authority [coach, teacher, childcare worker, etc.]). Now, my gut reaction to a 19/15 pairing is that the 15-year-old is more likely to suffer from any power imbalance in the relationship because my own feeling is that being 15 is quite a bit different from being 19. But then, I've known some pretty precocious 15-year-olds and some pretty clueless 19-year-olds, so really, it's not always the case that in a 15/19 pairing the 15yo is going to be being taken advantage of. Is it more likely? In general, sure. But always? Nah.

    I think as we mature (at least this has been my experience), we tend to shift our focus away from "pretty" and more to "compatible." That is, at least with me, I find some younger guys hot but, except on rare occasions, they don't generally seem like they'd be good relationship material for me (for a host of reasons). But I would try not to rule someone out simply because they were X years old in the hopes that I wouldn't get ruled out by people simply because I happened to be born in 1974.

    And trust me, when you were born in 1974 and you realise that someone born in 1990 will be 15 this year, it totally fucks with your mind. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: For instance, I have friends who were born in the 80s who were only like three or four when these momentous things from my life happened. It's weird. Conversely, when one of my friends was 30, I was 10 at the time, which is also pretty weird. At the end of the day, I think age is as important as we make it--and sadly, as a society, we've chosen to make it it pretty important. Oh well... c'est la vie.
     
  7. joeyconnick

    joeyconnick Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,069
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    It's interesting you should mention watching out for your friends, just because it allows me to recount a story which I'm sure some people would consider a case of that but which I think is a case of the person doing the "watching out for" not being much of a friend at all.

    So I have this friend, we'll call him G. And he has a friend who I'll call R. Thus the stage is set. *smile*

    Anyway (and I throw in some local names just because I know at least Aaron is from the Vancouver area) my friend G was interested in going to The World with a friend of his one night. The World is an afterhours club here where, because it's unlicensed, a lot of people who go are "on something," (i.e. party drugs). Anyway, it holds this kind of "ooh bad-ass" fascination for a lot of people, which is somewhat understandable. Anyway, yes, so my friend G was going to go to check it out with another friend of his. He made the mistake of telling his friend R that these were his plans.

    R freaks out and says, "Oh my god, G, why would you want to go there?! Do you want people to think you're a druggie?!"

    So yes, R, ostensibly a friend to G, is concerned that what? Morons whose opinions shouldn't matter to him, let alone G, might think that G does drugs if they heard that G went to The World... once? Notice the concern is not about G's safety, it's about G's reputation, or really, and this is what kills me, it's not about G at all: it's about how R having a friend who went to The World might impact his own precious reputation.

    The fact of the matter is that G has done drugs in the past and is likely to do them again. Not hardcore or anything, and certainly not in a way which would endanger his health.

    It just enrages me to think that some people's "friends" think watching out for them involves restricting their actions based on the friends' concern for their friend's (or their own) rep. If G wants to go explore some afterhours club, why on Earth should R object to that? Why should R even get a vote? It's not like G is making R come with him. And it's not like G has suddenly become (or is in any danger of becoming) an Ecstasy-popping or crystal-snorting junkie. He just wanted to check out somewhere new that he thought might be interesting. And instead he gets a guilt trip and made to feel dirty because his stick-up-his-ass "friend" is afraid people will think less of him (not G) for having a friend who has gone to the "den of iniquity."

    So what does this have to do with the original comment? I guess I just want to make sure that everyone who "looks out for their friends" is actually looking out for their safety and well-being, and not how their friend's behaviour might reflect poorly on them in the eyes of judgmental strangers. It's one thing to not want to do what your friends are doing. It's quite another to try to stop your friends from doing things you're not into simply because you're not into them or because "people in OUR group don't do that."
     
  8. goratrix

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    519
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well... just to cover my ass, when I say I don't like older guys I don't mean I don't like guys who look older, sure, I do have a taste when it comes to the body, and it includes looking young (not too young though).

    I mean, in fact, that I need to make a conection with someone If I'm going to even consider them. And I've found out that happens mostly with guys arround my age, with rare exceptions. I was aiming more to say I don't like people in their fourties because I don't have much in common with them, then again, I would have to consider it on a case by case basis... just that when I look at my friends, they are all in their early twenties, oh, yeah, and AC of course... the exception.

    Anyway... I'm far from clueless when it comes to manipulating people and stuff, but I'm utterly inexperienced when it commes to relationships... so I guess It balances in me being clueless regarding what joey so graciously called the 'Goratrix case' :grin:. And I can't say whether AC is clueless or precocious... because honestly I no longer trust my senses regarding him...

    btw, I hate society...

    Oh, and tomorrow I'm coming out to my brother... wish me luck :slight_smile:
     
  9. Paul_UK

    Paul_UK Guest

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2004
    Messages:
    6,885
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    That says much of what I wanted to add, in a lot less words that I would have used! That is certainly my experience too - although as I have a partner I don't tend to be thinking about 'relationship material'.

    Although I might initially see a younger guy at work and think he's cute or whatever, when I get to know him more it's the person and not the pretty face that's important.

    Some of the guys in clubs as mentioned in the original message don't seem to have made that transition though. They don't apper to think of the younger guys as people at all, just as potential sex objects.

    Exactly. It is not always easy to ignore a person's age (whether much older or much younger) initially, but once you get to know them it quickly becomes irrelevant.

    It's when you realise that people starting at work weren't born when you started working, and then when they are young enough to be your son that it gets weird. At least it did for me, being born in 1964.

    Hopefully this 41 year old is another exception....!!! :icon_bigg :icon_bigg

    Absolutely - fingers crossed! Let us know how it goes (but not in this tread as it's too interesting to take off-topic).
     
  10. goratrix

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    519
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hmm... I think we have one or two things in common... and even if we didn't... I'd like you just because of Duke (did I get it rigth? i'm not good with names... )
     
  11. hawkeye

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    263
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Age is definately on a person by person basis for relationships. For example, My dad is going out with a girl 22 years younger than him. so basicly the difference between him and her is more than the difference between her and me, but the thing is they are really perfect for each other. Both are completetly immature and get along great. If I were looking for a date though (like i am now), I would feel better if i got a date that is as close to my age as possible, just because I am not comfortable with trying to date anyone much older or younger than i am. I do think it is immoral for a person to specifically go after people much younger than they are sexually.