The "gay adolescent" soon will disappear....

Hmm... I think when people identify as gay, it often is just as much about identifying themselves as part of a minority group as it is about declaring that they're primarily attracted to men/women. So as long as there are teenagers who feel like their same-sex attractions isolate them in some way from the rest of society, I think there will continue to be "gay adolescents."

 

I think it's important to note that he's saying gay adolescents will disappear, not gay people in general. There's nothing really new going on here... Teenagers have always been experimenting with figuring out their same-sex / opposite-sex attractions. Before the 20th century, teens experimented, but didn't identify as gay because back then there wasn't a concept of homosexuality. In more modern times, teens still experimented and increasingly many began to identify as gay once they became adults. Today teens still experiment, but because of changes in the social climate, there's less of a stigma and more support for identifying gay, which I believe has lead more people to come out earlier perhaps before some are 100% understanding of their sexuality.

However, it's important to remember that teens are experimenting and many may be confused about their sexuality. A lot of teens that identify as hetero at that age, may identify as gay later and that's been true for a long time. Now that it's more acceptable for teens to come out though, it's probably become increasingly common for the converse to happen (identify as gay, then as hetero or bi later).

Because of all the confusion and exploration, it seems to me that it would be best if teens (or people in general) didn't have to take on a label right away. If they need a label, perhaps "questioning" or "exploring" would be best. That's exactly what the author of the book is getting at here. Instead of having to pick sides (and have that turn out wrong later), more teens are just staying unlabeled (or labeling themselves hetero, although I suspect this is more out of comfort than anything else) and getting involved with whichever people they fancy at that time.

In the end, I suspect many as they become adults would still eventually identify as gay or bi or even hetero (denial and confusion about their sexuality seem to never get resolved for some people) as their preferences become clear with maturity and experience. Especially when you're an adult, labels are important (although often frustrating and dehumanizing). In my eyes, it's very hard to meet and become involved with other people who are of your desired non-hetero sexuality (gay, lesbian, bi, etc.) unless you take on a label.

Personally, I struggled with finding a label for myself throughout much of my younger years because none seemed to fit ("I couldn't be gay because I wasn't like guys who called themselves gay.", stereotypes and homophobia and all that). Not having that label precluded me from finding and having serious relationships with gay men during that period. That's unfortunate in many ways, but people like labels and they seem to largely be a necessary evil in our society.

As time goes on and these adolescents leave high school to enter college or the non-school world, it becomes increasingly difficult to have "youthful indiscretions" with other people who don't label. That combined with a better understanding of one's desires and preferences acquired by aging will probably not spell the end of the gay adult any time soon.

 

I actually used this book as a major source for a paper I wrote for Sociology 100 this summer on queer youth suicide. It is an excellent read. (The book, not the paper. Well actually, the paper got the highest mark in the class, so I guess it's not that bad a read. *grin*)

However, I think Savin-Williams is pretty mistaken in his claims about the end of "gay adolescence." I think it's probably trending that way but it's nowhere near the stage he seems to describe (and I question if we will ever get to the post-gay utopia he imagines). You also get the feeling, reading the book, that a lot of it is wish-fulfilment on his part, that he probably grew up wondering why people made such a big issue about sexual difference when (and I agree with this in the ideal sense) he felt there was no need for people to be stuck into categories like gay and straight.

He seems to ignore the fact that often, what we label ourselves doesn't matter--it's how the rest of society labels us that has a significant impact. So while today's teenagers may not be as eager to adopt a sexual identity label as previously, they are growing up in a world where their gay elders and mainstream elders do definitely see a distinction between "gay" and "straight" (for better and for worse). So the whole extinction of the gay adolescent is not going to come about any sooner than 20 years or so, if you ask me.

And then there's the fact that he really seems to be coming from an urban or very liberal suburban point of view. I know people here on EC and in real life who simply cannot be open about their same-sex experiences and expect it not to be a big deal.

And finally, he doesn't seem to appreciate all the many reasons people take on labels or join communities, which I think is what Motionmaker was getting at. Like most label-rejecters, he seems fixated on how labels are inherently bad because they come with stereotypes, not really getting the fact that labels are actually neutral--it's how we as a society perceive those labels that the harm or the benefits spring. You should define your labels, not let them define you. His argument is, in the extreme, akin to women arguing they don't want to identify as women anymore because society treats women poorly, when we all should be advocating that women be treated equally. (And yes, I can say that because quite apart from the biological differences of sex, gender is very much an identity that we learn, much like apart from the biological differences between the sexual activities of queer and non-queer people, gay, straight, bi, queer, lesbian are identities we take on and communities into which we assimiliate... unless you're an essentialist and then, well, yeah... good luck finding that gay gene thing).

Actually, his viewpoint is very much one that seems to spring from an individualistic perspective, which makes complete sense given he's a psychologist, while my rebuttal follows, I think, a more group-oriented approach that would be more common among sociologists. Or at least that's my story and I'm sticking with it.

I can definitely see the benefit of moving beyond pure identity models of sexuality; I mean, Kinsey himself definitely did more than slot people into gay/straight holes based on their own self-descriptions. I just don't think that wanting to dismantle sexual identities wholesale is that useful a use of our collective time and energy. The label "gay" should be descriptive, not proscriptive, yes. But it sure is a handy label.

 

I agree with a lot of what was said but before me (but I have to admit a lot of it went over my head, but I generally understand it though).

I totally agree with the problems that labels are causing, but I figure that they may be inevitable but they could definetely inprove. I also hate the stereotypes go along with being gay (acting feminine, having good fashion sense, wanting to be a woman, transvestites, etc), all the stuff that they put in the media and elsewhere that people just eat up. I don't fit into those stereotype of a gay man at all. I haven't come out to anyone yet but I bet if I told anyone that I was gay they'd be shocked because I don't fit their notion of what being gay is supposed to be. When I hear people talk about these stereotypes as if they're legitamate I just think about how ignorant the world is and how it is all due to these labels we put on ourselves. Not just lables of being gay but other lables that go with gender, age, race, religon, or anything for that matter. "Aren't people who are (blank) supposed to be (blank)?" "No, They don't have to be". I really just wish people could see past labels. It would make it a lot easier for people to see that in a lot of ways that everyone is the same and that our differences don't have to separate us. I hope oneday that sexual orientation will not have a label placed on it but I agree that it is still very far off.

 

Interesting... I was this way though. I was attracted to guys and girls, but I still labeled myself as straight. Never even crossed my mind I was gay. Then as I grew older, I became less attracted to girls and more attracted to guys, and now Its pretty much exclusive attraction to guys.

 

Thats the exact same as me! And I was discussing this with someone on MSN today as well, strange!