Stereotypes...why prove or disprove?

[Daniel]

So I have noticed that there are threads devoted to the exploration of how people embody stereotypes or how people disprove them.

My question is, why do we feel the need to worry about stereotypes? Why can't we just be ourselves? Does a gay boy have to have a lisp? Does a gay girl have to wear flannel?

Do we have to disprove these stereotypes? Is it more important to be happy with who we are than what others think we need to be?

This is no no way meant to be rude to those who created the threads or those who replied to those threads. I did. This is a philosophical question I pose.

Is the most important thing in life how we are perceived, or how we perceive ourselves?

[ethelred]

Well, I think a lot of people are freaked out when they realize they're gay or bi or lesbian or [insert label here] and suddenly they feel compelled to do "gay stuff."

And I don't mean that they reason that because they are ___sexual, they must do ____, nor that everyone goes through that. But if you like nice hair and cute sneakers and you're a gay male, the initial shock that you embody a stereotype is jarring, and concerning. Numerous times here I've read "do I like ____ because I'm gay, or would I still like ____ if I liked [opposite gender]?"

Same goes for the other side of the spectrum; you're a "typical" person of your gender, and you realize you like the same sex...you may feel compelled to try "gay things," or perhaps be confused why you don't like "gay things."

Or you could be in my boat: I always tried to be gender-non-conformist. I cook, I paint, I draw, I sew, and I've worked on cars, welded, built miniatures, camped, etc. I took it as my personal campaign to prove that a guy didn't need to be a macho jackass, and I liked it.

Which made it harder to come out because I worried that my example would be lost because I was just being "gay." And the worst part now that I am out is I am afraid to do really gay things, because it fulfills that stereotype.

I suppose it is all about finding out who you are and at some point coming to the conclusion that if you worry about stereotypes defining you, then they will. So you might as well do whatever the hell seems natural...



...like other dudes, cha-ching!

[confusedgirl]

I think its how we preceive ourselves because not everyone wants to be the popular girl some people want to beat to the sound of their own drums like me because its better then following someone else like a robot so in my opnion I think its much easier being yourself instead of what people want you to be in their eyes

meh, there are just times that i wish i fit into gay stereotypes a little more cause it's annoying when all the boys think i like girls or something crazy like that. other than that i really don't care.

and whether we fit into a stereotype or not, we're still unique, cause we're not straight

[Mondo]

Part of is about having a sense of connection when you feel fundamentally different from everyone around you. These stereotypes are how people relate to each other and add cohesiveness to an otherwise disjointed community.
A lot of the stereotypes have developed as a reaction to gay rights advances in recent years. The people who create the most publicity for the gay community (although this is starting to change) tend to take stereotypes to extremes because it gets them attention. As time goes on and gay rights progress, I think the stereotypes will start to fade. It's what we need right now to distinguish ourselves from the masses and increase exposure. People (Anderson Cooper, Neil Patrick Harris, Ellen, that one Rugby guy, etc.) are already disproving the stereotypes and that's a trend that I think will become more common in the years to come.

[Markio]

Originally Posted by Daniel

Is the most important thing in life how we are perceived, or how we perceive ourselves?

Stereotypes affect the way we feel about ourselves. When I disprove a stereotype, I think to myself, "I'm proof that what people say about me is wrong! If people think this about all gay people, I can make them realize that stereotypes are inaccurate!" When I fit with a stereotype, I think, "Uh-oh, I hope this doesn't confirm what other people say about me. I hope they don't draw from this character trait of mine that all gays really are like how they say we are!"

However, some people probably have the self-esteem to acknowledge the stereotypes, see in themselves what fits and what doesn't, have a good laugh, and then ignore what other people might think about them, because they're comfortable enough with themselves that they don't need the approval of others or disapproval to make them feel good or bad about themselves.

I think, therefore, that stereotypes represent the way "others" perceive "us" (the group being stereotyped). I think it comes down to how strong we are at seeing ourselves separately from stereotypes, or from how others perceive us. We can either believe them, worry that other people believe them, or not care that other people believe them and not believe them ourselves. I mean, everyone is more complex than a stereotype, even if they fit into one on many levels.

However, I think it's important to recognize how stereotypes can drive others to act based what they believe to be true. Matthew Shepard was murdered for being gay, even though his murderers didn't know how complex a person he was. In their minds, he was "one of those gays".

[BrownBoi89]

I think first and foremost people should be themselves, even if the way they behave confirms a stereotype. However in my experience stereotypes place a wide range of attributes to a group of people, and in most cases people do not possess every single stereotypical quality associated with that group, if they do possess any. So even if you act in a stereotypical way in one sense, you may not have the other stereotypical characteristics associated with whatever groups you belong to. However I do understand why people want to disspell stereotypes. People are afraid others will judge them based on the group they belong to and will not take the time to get to know them as a person. However I think people should stop worrying about how others think and just be themselves. Although this is slightly hypocritical of me, seeing that I'm out to only a few people. I hope to be out soon though.

[Lexington]

We're human. As such, we like to organize things and look for commonalities. You know, all rectangles have four sides, but not all rectangles are squares. Things like that. And stereotypes do often come from somewhere. No, not all gays are effeminate. But most effeminate guys are gay. We're an inquisitive species, and we like to conjecture. The key is not to believe these conjectures are gospel truths.

Lex

[partietraumatic]

Originally Posted by paco

meh, there are just times that i wish i fit into gay stereotypes a little more

yeah i kinda wish that sometimes. Some gay guys i know would never have to come out coz you would know they're gay straight away. Where as i have to tell people, which i still get nervous about.

[Phoenix]

I don't think stereotypes need to be proven because there's always some basis of truth in them no matter how small. But they need to be disproven because often people who are outside the group of people being stereotyped can't identify with them and will sometimes think that everyone in that group of people are the stereotype.

[touchofgrey]

Once I realized I was gay, I was all about "fitting in" to the stereotypes. But... I don't know if I did these things (cut my hair short, buy some boy clothes) because I realized I was gay or if I did these things because deep down I've always wanted to do these things and now that I was being honest with myself, I felt free to do these things.... hmmm....

good topic.

[Black Cat]

Stereotypes are all BS made up to make us all feel insecure. And incase anyone hasn’t noticed, they usually work. I say like what you like, if you’re gay but don’t party to Lady Gaga, bow before Madonna, or skip down the street barfing fairy dust its fine by me. If you’re a lesbian who doesn’t like softball, Birkenstocks, or flannel that too, is fine by me.

I used to worry too much about identifying too much with any particular stereotype associated with gay men, but now who cares. I don’t. Sure I’ll admit I’ve often caught myself worrying unnecessarily about what people may think of me for acting the way I act sometimes, but then I quickly remind myself how stupid it is to go along being something that other people expect me to be.

I think society as a whole is actually better at accepting stereotype disproving people now than it has ever been. There is still margin for improvement, but that’s normal.

The way we perceive ourselves is directly influenced by stereotypes in the media. If we see something saying all people with brown hair have less sex than people with blonde hair (I made it up, they may or may not have more or less sex than their blonde counterparts) then we examine our own lives and start to believe it. It’s actually quite interesting. What makes us do this you ask? It is simply fueled by our desire to be what we think we should be in order to be better accepted into the world. We secretly all want to fit in, apparently at any cost for some.

We as gay people should (and no doubt invariably do) know that there is a veritable cornucopia of people out there who simply can not be boxed into one specific group. I think this attitude is beginning to catch on in other places as well.

I don’t think I said a single thing that made sense there, but I’m going to share it anyway.

In short, I hate stereotypes. I think they are overused, and we worry about them too much. Sure there are in fact people out there who are like that, but that is the case for all stereotypes. Be who you want to be, not who you think you need to be.

[Joe Jetfighter]

For me, it's just a way of saying "Yeah, I know the stereotypes exist. I fit some. I defy some. I am a human being too complex to fit a cookie-cutter archetype. Deal with it."

When stereotypes are brought up, I try to be as honest as I can, instead of pretending to fit none of them or every single one of them, like some people do when they're insecure (including me in my less-secure days). I think acknowledging them is only way to move past them and not let them get in the way. It's showing I'm comfortable in my own skin, no matter how much it matches or bucks someone's preconceived notions. I am who I am, and I'm not changing for anyone or anything.

I fit some I don't others really I could care less it's just other people that think I am making a statement when I do somethign that is considered sterotypically lesbian but they never stop to think maybe it's just becasue I want to do it no matter what the sterotypes are.

[Greggers]

Personally, when i first realized "Oh shit, maybe my attraction to men is here to stay. I think i am gay" the very first thing i did was pray something along the lines of...

"Dear God, I know I am gay, but please please please dont let me be 'one of those gays', ill do anything to hang on to what little normal i have left!"

...and so then started the path to my second self-coming out, this time as genderqueer. Trying to be "normal" when by your very definition you defy all normality, you kind of get fucked up

I think because i struggled so much with trying to fit into society when society didnt want anything to do with me I gained alot of respect for anyone who is stereotypical, fem/butch, genderqueer or trans. Im a strong believer in being who you are, stereotypical or not. That said, it takes alot more guts to go against the flow than to go with it. Its easy to be yourself when yourself can blend into a crowd, but if your a 6.4 tranny with a wig the size of Texas, you have to grow some pretty thick skin to stay with it

[JB1986]

Last year when I first came out, I was very conscious of stereotypes, and tried not to fit into alot of them. I think I didn't want stereotypes to define me or something. But, I thankfully got over that. There are just some stereotypes I possess, and some I don't. I'm a big Madonna fan, and I love musicals. But on the other hand, I don't lisp, and know nothing about fashion. The concept of stereotypes sucks anyway. I agree with theOP, can't we just be ourselves?

[xballetxbeautyx]

I think some of it's a joke. Ever since I've come out my friends and I have joked about how manly I am - and I don't own flannel, have a mullet, or use power tools. I wear tutus and tiaras and I don't really like too much nature. But we still say I'm super manly.

Some of it, also, is that nobody likes having things predetermined about them so they try to disprove the stereotypes. Cause it does suck to have it assumed that since a guy is gay he likes musicals and fairies or whatever, and it affects the way people see you. Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not, but a person should be able to show someone else what he's like, not have it assumed just because he's gay.

Finally, I've seen lots of threads asking how to look or act or be perceived as 'gayer' for purposes of finding other gay people. Which makes sense. There aren't that many of us, so it helps if we can easily recognize each other so we can stick together. I'm not saying everybody should wear rainbows all the time and parade around with glitter and tiaras, I'm just saying it's a factor.

I agree that people should be individuals. I have a lot of "straight" hobbies and a lot of "gay" hobbies. I love video games, horror movies, prank phone calls, ding dong ditch, punk and metal music, and watching wrestling (OK, well that's kind of un-straight if ya think about it). I also love musicals, 80's pop, cross-dressing, and many other "non-masculine" things. I don't identify as femme or butch. Hell, I even have a hard time identifying as gay. I hate labels.

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by ethelred

Well, I think a lot of people are freaked out when they realize they're gay or bi or lesbian or [insert label here] and suddenly they feel compelled to do "gay stuff."

And I don't mean that they reason that because they are ___sexual, they must do ____, nor that everyone goes through that. But if you like nice hair and cute sneakers and you're a gay male, the initial shock that you embody a stereotype is jarring, and concerning. Numerous times here I've read "do I like ____ because I'm gay, or would I still like ____ if I liked [opposite gender]?"

Same goes for the other side of the spectrum; you're a "typical" person of your gender, and you realize you like the same sex...you may feel compelled to try "gay things," or perhaps be confused why you don't like "gay things."

Or you could be in my boat: I always tried to be gender-non-conformist. I cook, I paint, I draw, I sew, and I've worked on cars, welded, built miniatures, camped, etc. I took it as my personal campaign to prove that a guy didn't need to be a macho jackass, and I liked it.

Which made it harder to come out because I worried that my example would be lost because I was just being "gay." And the worst part now that I am out is I am afraid to do really gay things, because it fulfills that stereotype.

I suppose it is all about finding out who you are and at some point coming to the conclusion that if you worry about stereotypes defining you, then they will. So you might as well do whatever the hell seems natural...



...like other dudes, cha-ching!

Lol that's funny, I am in the same situation and feel pretty similarly. I dont want to ever look like i'm doing anything BECAUSE I'm gay, but I do want to do things that I like, and being gay, Yes some of those things ARE very stereotypical. When I talk about the things I like, it makes me feel like i dont do a very good job NOT being stereotypical. I like musicals, and dressing nicely, but I also like video games, and geeky things, and computers. I dont think these things say anything about my sexuality and I liked them before I could even think about myself being gay. So though yeah, some stereotypes are true, they dont MAKE someone gay.

[GhostDog]

Speaking personally, I never take gay stereotypes all that seriously. I do find it amusing how I manage to fit so many, but I'm still just me. I fit some, I don't fit others! Is life.

I did wonder if I'd act the same if I weren't queer*, but on reflection? I've always wanted to do these things, but felt afraid to. I didn't want to appear too masculine, didn't want to seem like I was trying to do "boy things" because it wasn't my place or something. I also didn't want to seem like I was trying to do "girl things", either, because I didn't feel pretty enough or enough like a real girl to even try any of that. I didn't want people to think I was uppity for trying to present myself as anything other than a hideous subhuman piece of crap. I, uh, had issues.

Now? Meh. I have short hair, a working knowledge of power tools, feel out of place in a dress, and I listen to a lot of Tegan and Sara. But I also enjoy makeup and have a love of cute tops and cute shoes. I do a lot more "masculine" things and more "feminine" things than I used to. The only difference between now (when I'm out and comfortable with myself) and then is that I don't stop myself from doing things I want to do and acting how I want to act. If it ain't illegal and ain't gonna kill me, life's too short to not do what the hell I want to do! If I fit some stereotypes in the process, hey, isn't that funny. If I don't, I don't need to.

Yeah, I will try things sometimes because they seem like typically gay things to do, to see if I like them. And I'll give bands a first listen because I saw them on AfterEllen or somethin'. Stuff like that. It's probably out of a desire to be more visible! If I keep doing it, though, it's because I like it, not because I feel obligated to. =P

I've just spent so very long caring so much about how people perceived me, to the point where it was emotionally paralyzing, and I am so done with that crap. >:[

* I do love that question, though. I know what it's getting at, but I love how it basically asks, "Would I be the same person if I were a different person?"