May be offensive to some but not meaning to.

[pikachu1]

I'm not trying to be offensive to anyone nor am I trying to hurt anyone's feeling or get them pissed off. It's just that I have been thinking about this lately and wanted to share it.

Why do some gays decide that since they are now open about who they are that they have to completely change their behavior and fit into the stereotypes of that group whether it be gay or lesbian? I've known some gay guys who at first seem to be the same person they always were then all of a sudden they are wearing short shorts, painting their nails, wearing high heels, talking with a lisp, and seem to become more effeminate overall. The same goes for some women I've known who suddenly decide to shave their heads, drink beer and watch sports, and take on an overall masculine look to them. Why is it that these people seemed to suddenly want to fit into the stereotypes that go with being gay/lesbian. I don't mean to be offensive to anyone but I feel that it is people like these that kind of hurt the rights that others are fighting for. By fitting into the stereotypes they are sort of strengthening the arguments people have against us. I am not trying to bash on anyone. I'm just kinda venting on this issue because I feel that it is one that should be addressed.

[Black Cat]

Maybe they've wanted to be that way all along but were too ashamed and scared to show themselves as something other than the socially acceptable "norm"? Once they come out they feel they can be themselves completely, which if you ask me is the entire point of coming out in the first place.

[Zumbro]

I agree with Black Cat. Now that I'm out I see myself becoming more of a stereotypical gay guy all the time, but it feels natural to me. Now, I don't plan on painting my nails or anything of the sort, but now that I don't have to worry about whether or not other people think I'm gay, I can just do it.

[pikachu1]

I'm not trying to be mean with this in anyway nor am I saying that people have to hide who they are. I know how hard it is when you hide things from others and how damaging that can be to your psyche. What I'm trying to say is why do some gays have to be so "extreme" about it all. Why can't they find some thing in the middle? I also wonder what is the deal with the lisp? I don't have a lisp and I know lots of people who never had one but all of a sudden after they come out they get one. What is with this? Also I feel that if you want to wear clothes of the opposite sex in order to cement yourself in the fact that you are gay then by all means do it but don't say that you hate how people don't take you seriously when you want something. I feel that if you are gay(gay/bi/straight/asexual) dress in the clothes that you should be dressing in according to your sex in public but if you want to dress up then you can do it at parties/home/parades/other celebrations. I'm not saying that women have to wear dresses and men have to wear jeans or anything but if you are a man don't go out in Daisy Dukes cutoffs, a shirt tied in a knot, and high heels. Same with women. I know I may seem like I'm being a bigot or something but this is how I feel and I'm not saying this to be cruel or hurtful. The thing is that the world as a whole isn't ready for such flamboyant things and I dunno if it ever will since it goes against everything us humans have accepted for the beginning of mankind. I know your saying to me "Go back to the Dark Ages where women wore dresses and only men could where pants!" I'm not suggesting that at all. All I'm saying is that you should dress appropriately and if you want to become and man/woman that badly then you should go through the proper medical channels to become what you have always wanted to be. If you are a man be proud to be a man, if you are a woman be proud to be a woman. Don't try to be something you are not unless you get the proper medical procedure done so you can be a man/woman both in body and mind.

[Gaetan]

A gay friend of mine was very reserved, very quiet when I first met him. He wore darker colors and was very reserved. When he came out, he rebounded to the opposite end of the spectrum. He was very outgoing, wore bright colors and was, quite simply, flaming. He's since mellowed out, but I think for him it was just releasing what had been pent up inside him for so long.

[Black Cat]

I understand what you're asking, and I know it isn't meant to be offensive. I was merely offering my opinion on the matter.

Originally Posted by pikachu1

All I'm saying is that you should dress appropriately and if you want to become and man/woman that badly then you should go through the proper medical channels to become what you have always wanted to be. If you are a man be proud to be a man, if you are a woman be proud to be a woman. Don't try to be something you are not unless you get the proper medical procedure done so you can be a man/woman both in body and mind.

Now that part I disagree with. Some people are happy being one sex and don't want to change, or don't feel changing genders is necessary to live as they choose to. Gender bending is something most people fear simply because they don't understand it. If you're a dude who likes to wear dresses instead of pants, but are perfectly happy being a dude then why should you have to change because someone else thinks, as your signature clearly states, there is no in-between? Some people are completely content being in-between gender boundaries.

As for the lisping, short shorts, etc. I have little or no advice. Some people just act that way. We can’t change them. Whether or not you find it counter productive to the struggle for LGBT rights is your own personal opinion, to which you are completely entitled. I can only say if you don’t like people like that then just don’t hang out with them. Don’t go trying to tell them they can’t or shouldn’t act, dress, speak, or think in a certain way because it makes you uncomfortable. Just let them be themselves. As the above poster suggested, it may just be a bunch of pent-up feelings they’ve suppressed for years that will wind down as they adjust to being out.

Just my two cent's worth, nothing meant to offend or anything.

[pikachu1]

Maybe I came off the wrong way. I'm sorry for saying people can't be who they want that's not what I meant. I'm fine with people wearing opposite sex clothes. What I was trying to say was that there are people out there that obviously don't accept that kind of behavior and for those gays to try and act as if people don't have a problem with it is wrong. They should realize that some people don't like that but instead they seem to wonder why some people look at them weird when they should know the reason why. I'm not trying to bash on anyone this way. As for me saying people should get sex-change surgery I don't mean that is for everyone. What I was trying to say is that there are certain people who are so "extreme" in their behavior, appearance, mannerisms that those people would probably be better off by becoming the sex that they are imitating because then at least they wouldn't have to just be an "imitation" they could be the real thing.

Edit: Looking back on my previous post it does sound very mean and I didn't mean for it to. When I typed it I was angry cause I got an email saying my financial aid fell through so that means I gotta pay now for school somehow. Also cause I have yet to receive a book I ordered about 2 weeks ago. Sorry for saying things I didn't mean just because I was angry. I apologize to anyone I angered or hurt.

[Zumbro]

Pikachu, we know you're not trying to be offensive in any of your posts, so don't worry. The site is all about asking questions in a safe environment.

As far as your comments about those who are extreme getting surgery, you have to realize that surgery is very expensive, especially for a specialized surgery like that. Some people just can't afford it, so they do the best they can to make it seem like they've had one without actually doing it. It is a very invasive procedure either way, so there are probably just be some people who don't want it either, and we should respect that.

My belief as well about the people who have an issue with those who choose to live their life in such a way is that they need to get over it. It doesn't affect them, and in my opinion asking everyone to conform to the "normal dress" to keep others in their safe zone is a step backwards in personal liberties for everyone. Yes, they will be looked at strangely (and I agree that they shouldn't freak out about it), but how will we get people to look at them like "normal" people unless they dress the way they want. We've all gotta get used to it at some point.

Also, good luck with tuition and whatnot. I'm in school too, so I know how terrible it can be to be constantly worrying about whether or not you can afford to go to school, or your books, or any of that stuff.

[Black Cat]

^Now it's my turn to agree with you Zumbro. Well said.

And don't worry about offending anyone pikachu1, your title clearly states you don't mean to be. Sometimes when seeking information the only way to get an answer is to be a bit direct about the question. This place is meant for discussing things like this. We all wonder about them at some point in time. And I admire the fact that you clearly apologize to anyone who may be offended.

I too hope you get all your financing sorted out. I'm not in college, but I know how frustrating all that can be.

[crazydude]

So first of all who’s to say how a man or a woman should act or dress? There is nothing saying we need to act or dress a certain way. We are just use to men and women acting and dressing a certain way, but there is no rule book saying what this is this is just how we were all raised and what we are use to. These are just stereotypes of how both genders should act/dress. The problem is our society is so close minded and judges people based on what they think should be “normal” Unfortunately this is the way it is with anything whether, its race, gender, or sexual orientation, there will always be people that disagree, but over time certain things will become more “normal” and not such a big deal to the general public. I will be completely honest in that I am someone who’s uncomfortable with guys acting very flamboyant and dressing in girl clothes, but I have to realize that it in no way effects me and if that is what makes them happy then so be it. The only way to be more accepting and comfortable with something I think is through education. The more you know about something the more comfortable you are with it.

Now another point I think pikachu1 is trying to get across (correct me if I’m wrong) is that some of these people are going out of their way to act a certain way just to prove to others that they are “different”. I too feel this way about some individuals. They seem to be acting a particular way in that they are actually forcing themselves to be certain way just to make a statement. This I think is somewhat wrong. You should be yourself and never feel like you have to act a certain way to “fit in”. It could be just because I don’t quite understand it and I am misinterpreting their behavior that I think this way, but I do believe that there is so much pressure from all different groups of people to be a certain way and people feel the only way they can be apart of that group is if they act the part whether it is who they really are or not. The most important thing in my opinion is you should live a fulfilled, happy life (the way this is accomplished will obviously be different for everyone) while not hurting anyone in the process.

[malachite]

well i guess it could be one of two things.
one: they want to fit in. They want to somewhere in the gay community that they can fit in, so they start acting they different to fit in.

Two: they have pent up their homosexual feelings for so long that all they know is the stereotype.

[Maddy]

Before I came out, I was always watching my behaviour and my appearance. "Don't wear that, it's too butch". "Don't walk like that, it's too manly." "Don't say that, people will suspect you're gay." And it's difficult to live like that, when you're analysing every move you make and trying to change so much of your behaviour. When I came out, I felt like I'd been freed from that. I'm naturally somewhere in between butch and femme, and when I let myself be that way instead of trying to hide every trace of butchness, I was so much happier, so much less stressed, and I felt like myself. If other people are naturally more masculine or more feminine, and they start acting the way they feel is right for them after trying to punch it down for so long, good for them. I'd rather they be themselves and happy than conform and be miserable.

[pikachu1]

Where does the change in voice come from for either men or women? I never understood that since lots of people just seem to develop it over time even when they never had it before.

[Étoile]

Some closet gays edit their voice to make it sound more masculine. It's like when an actor puts on an accent for one of his movies.

To be honest, I find it great fun to act extremely gay every once in a while. I don't go out of my way to be a flamer; I'll just censor myself less, and have fun with it. It's stuff I was never able to do in the closet. Like others have said, it's not so much changing your personality as letting your real personality be seen.

[ethelred]

Originally Posted by Drizzt DoUrden

To be honest, I find it great fun to act extremely gay every once in a while. I don't go out of my way to be a flamer; I'll just censor myself less, and have fun with it. It's stuff I was never able to do in the closet. Like others have said, it's not so much changing your personality as letting your real personality be seen.

Oh hell yeah! Loads of fun. Every day, all the time? No, but once in a while it is just fun to gay it up, especially if someone is being sour about it, then they get extra gay.

Did I just use the word "sour"? That is odd...

[Tim]

Originally Posted by Étoile

Some closet gays edit their voice to make it sound more masculine. It's like when an actor puts on an accent for one of his movies.

My voice naturally got more feminine, don't know why. XD

And of course they can be just friends. I have plenty of gay guys who are just friends, and I know a lot of the other groupings you made that are just friends.

[Markio]

Why some gays decide that they have to completely change their behavior and fit into the stereotypes of that group:

1) They want to fit in with their "new" community, and do so by acting like the stereotype.

2) It's easier than individually telling people that they're not straight, but in fact queer.

3)They want to see if stereotypical clothing or activities are right for them, so they try them out.

4) They've been changing their behavior since the beginning to fit in, and instead are now no longer changing their behavior.

Personally, I do talk lower and try not to sound to "homosexual" when I'm with my family or brothers, because they don't know I'm gay and I don't want to tell them yet. However, when I'm with accepting people that know I'm gay, I don't control the way my voice sounds. It doesn't sound much different, but I think most people change their vocal styles a little to match who their talking with.

[Zumbro]

^^

Great way to sum that up, I think.

[RaeofLite]

Originally Posted by Maddy

Before I came out, I was always watching my behaviour and my appearance. "Don't wear that, it's too butch". "Don't walk like that, it's too manly." "Don't say that, people will suspect you're gay." And it's difficult to live like that, when you're analysing every move you make and trying to change so much of your behaviour. When I came out, I felt like I'd been freed from that. I'm naturally somewhere in between butch and femme, and when I let myself be that way instead of trying to hide every trace of butchness, I was so much happier, so much less stressed, and I felt like myself. If other people are naturally more masculine or more feminine, and they start acting the way they feel is right for them after trying to punch it down for so long, good for them. I'd rather they be themselves and happy than conform and be miserable.

I second this. All throughout highschool (before I knew I was gay) I wished I could wear genderqueer/butch/androgynous type clothing or whatever the hell I wanted. However I didn't want to break my mother's heart so I conformed to her ideal "feminine" ideal for so long. A few years through university taught me to be comfortable with myself and to basically wear what I want. So las tyear I cut my hair, stopped worrying so much about what people think and do whatever. It's not like I'm trying to attract the dudes now... like my mother wanted me to previously. Although I don't know if I could totally get into sports like some butch lesbians do.. And I liked the occasional beer before coming out anyway.

I'm just me. I'm nearly completely free from the "mold" of being totally feminine to please "society" and parents.