A call out to greek brethren.... where are you?

[Ander Blue]

Okay - so I'm in a fraternity, and I know of two other people on this site who are as well. Given the popularity of greek life in north america, I would think that there are more members on this site who also are involved in the greek system. Personally, I think we have some interesting social dynamics that we have to live with, and I think we could offer eachother some interesting insites into eachother's situations. If you're out there, please say hello!

[Zumbro]

Well, here I am (as you well know)! But who is the third person? Or the rest of y'all?

[joeyconnick]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here (well okay, not really ) and make the assumption that greek life tends to repel rather than attract most gay guys. Don't know about non-hetero women, but most of the gay guys I've talked to are turned off by the stereotypical portrayal of frats (well, except the getting drunk, naked, and doing the "wow dude, I was so wasted last night I don't remember what the fuck happened at all!" shtick with your hot roommate part). Whether that's a fair portrayal is totally debatable, obviously, but to say frats are considered hotbeds of heterosexism isn't. So by extension, it would tend to figure that there'd be a disproportionately low number of gay guys (or at least out gay guys, for sure) in frats.

[Phoenix]

I just want someone to explain to me why the names of the Greek organizations are in Greek (Theta Phi Alpha, Kappa Lambda Mu and so on) but Latin names are used as their nouns (fraternity and sorority come from the Latin "frater"-brother and "soror"-sister).

[Shevanel]

Originally Posted by joeyconnick

I'm gonna go out on a limb here (well okay, not really ) and make the assumption that greek life tends to repel rather than attract most gay guys. Don't know about non-hetero women, but most of the gay guys I've talked to are turned off by the stereotypical portrayal of frats (well, except the getting drunk, naked, and doing the "wow dude, I was so wasted last night I don't remember what the fuck happened at all!" shtick with your hot roommate part). Whether that's a fair portrayal is totally debatable, obviously, but to say frats are considered hotbeds of heterosexism isn't. So by extension, it would tend to figure that there'd be a disproportionately low number of gay guys (or at least out gay guys, for sure) in frats.

I think that is quite a bad assumption to make =/ There are more nonstraight people than we think. And there is more than just Fraternities, there's also sororities. There are even gay and lesbian frat and sorority houses too. And then there are the tons of closeted people in frats and stuff. Like. I just think making assumptions is a really bad thing to do =/

[Ander Blue]

Considering the stereotypical images that fraternity life gets from the media, yes I do agree with you that it is intimidating and is portrayed as a hostile environment for gay men. Notable and noble fraternities though are not those that are portrayed as in Animal House or in the Simpsons. There are fraternities that exist whose interest's lie not in the boozing and cruising, but instead in the building of their member's character, providing for a certain charity, or encouraging the academics of its members. It's in these that I could expect to have a fair share of members who are comfortable with their sexuality and are not worried about being gay and being a member at the same time.

As for the latin and greek combination - i would say that the greek system is really the latin system. There are a lot of other examples besides soror and frater that come into play... Plus, the latin alphabet was really just drawing from the greek alphabet, so there's sorta connection ?

[joeyconnick]

Originally Posted by SurferDude420

I think that is quite a bad assumption to make =/ There are more nonstraight people than we think. And there is more than just Fraternities, there's also sororities. There are even gay and lesbian frat and sorority houses too. And then there are the tons of closeted people in frats and stuff. Like. I just think making assumptions is a really bad thing to do =/

Sororities: that's why I qualified what I said by saying I didn't know about the situation with non-hetero women (and by implication, sororities).

Closeted people: that's why I said "or at least out gay guys, for sure"

And I wonder exactly why it is that there are lesbian and gay greek houses, anyway? I'm sure it couldn't be anything to do with--the perception that queer people would be rejected from traditional greek houses? Oh no wait, that's probably EXACTLY what it is.

I think my mistake was probably using the word "assumption." I should have said, "My feeling (based on having talked to people, how frats are perceived, how prejudice functions, and having a pretty good grounding in how sexuality 'works' in general) is..." You wouldn't invalidate my feelings now, would you?

[Shevanel]

There's more than just gay people in the real world The stereotypical frat houses aren't worth it for most straight guys either too.

[Ander Blue]

^^
I really like this debate and this last comment...

[malachite]

I chose Malachite as my nickname becuase it also my favorite D&D character to play. Malachite is a Sorcerer who is obesssed with getting laid.

[s5m1]

I was in a fraternity a long time ago, when I was in college. It was pure Animal House! The place was a complete mess, with alcohol flowing 24 hours a day and testosterone-filled young men constantly trying to get laid. We had a keg in the shower on Saturday mornings before home football games (it was a large communal shower ). One of the brothers was a former demolitions expert in the army and every so often he would build a small bomb and blow something up (such as the foosball table one night during dinner). Somehow, in the middle of the night, one of the pledge classes got a cow up to the second floor where our rooms were located. We awoke to the sound of mooing and large feet running down the hallway. We took turns riding it back and forth. Funny thing was, a few weeks later, we had a whole lot of beef for dinner for quite a while. Not surprisingly, the chapter was eventually kicked off campus for all kinds of rule violations.

I can’t say that any of the brothers were gay or bi (other than me), at least as far as I knew. It was a pretty macho type place, and I certainly was not comfortable coming out then. I am sure there must have been others. It was really uncomfortable for me, particularly when we had mixers with sororities. Everyone was chasing skirts, and I could have cared less about the ladies. If I could do it all over again, I would probably opt for the GSA over a fraternity. I think it was hard for me to develop close relationships with my fraternity brothers because I was hiding that I was gay. I wish I could have been out to them, but at that time, I don’t think they would have been accepting.

[Zumbro]

I would like to point out that most fraternities these days don't do things as crazy as S5m1's did. Though some of it sounds like a ton of fun (come on now, who wouldn't want to ride a cow? be honest), it just isn't the normal day to day life of students who have classes and homework. Though there are a few fraternities where the alcohol flows like water, most do not simply because it looks bad to the public, and that won't attract the new members that will help to make your house more respected by others (and could get you kicked off campus). My house doesn't have communal showers or anything, but I would say that's pretty common unless the actual fraternity house started as a gym or something.

As far as coming out in a fraternity, it was difficult at first, but the younger generations of today are in general accepting or just don't give a hoot about if someone is gay or not, so it isn't really an issue. Oh, and the gay fraternity/sorority on campus. They are one of the places where alcohol flows like water and awkward relationships bud throughout the house. I much prefer my laid-back, non-hazing fraternity where I can go a night or two without a drinking game

[adam88]

My brother is in a fraternity and I'm temporarily (housing situation) staying at their frat house as a tenant. It was cheap and I knew a few of the guys there pretty well (they're all pretty decent folk), so it wasn't like I was moving in with a bunch of douchebags I don't know. Let me tell you- frat life is interesting, to say the least. Anyways, some of the members of this fraternity have been gay, so homophobia isn't exactly rampant. I'm not out to any of them, though.

[Lexington]

My college had a few fraternities, but they were very low-key affairs. A very slim number of students were members, and roughly half were co-ed. Basically, our school was small enough and the interaction great enough that there really didn't seem to be much need.

While at the school, we participated in "college night" at one of the big amusement parks nearby. There, we interacted with students from the bigger schools nearby, and it was pretty much a different world. I remember finally asking a female student, "OK, why do you introduce yourself with your sorority first and your name second?" And she said, "Well, you'd have to be in a fraternity to understand."

Apparently so.

Lex

[Ander Blue]

Hmm, Lex I honestly have never experienced that before - I can understand it though. Being in a huge gathering like that, knowing that you have brothers or sisters from the other school there, you don't want to chance meeting one and not realizing it. It's a special bond that you share with any member of your fraternity, no matter if they go to the same school as you or not. I can see why they would want to give their letters when introducing themselves.

[Nawy56]

I'm the third Zumbro! I am actually surprised there are not more that have responded with a yes. At my school, we have a huge greek system. over 50 fraterinities! and I will say that plenty are your average frat houses where alcohol flows like water. Not mine, or else I would never be there (We manage to have fun though! just not as ridiculous...) But even those other fraternities have gay guys in them as well. I actually know a number of gay guys in greek life. Most are not out, but a few are.
I am still not out to my fraternity. Might be a while. we will see. I don't want things to change, but why hide???
Greek life is interesting, and the comment made that you have to experience it to truly understand is a legitamate statement. It is a special bond that comes from...I do not know where! I do not think I will ever regret joining my fraternity, and I hope greek life can get a better name in the future! Pretty bad right now no? ha

[Zumbro]

Yay! It's nice to meet you Nawy! I'm happy to hear that you chose a house you like. I feel the same way. I don't think I'll ever regret joining mine, and if there was any ridiculous hazing or anything I would never have joined. Of course it doesn't mean we don't throw a good party now and then, but not so much it interferes

And you're definitely right in saying the bond in a fraternity is special, and kinda comes out of nowhere, but it's a bond I love nonetheless. And sadly, a bond most people won't understand, although I will say that there are quite a few clubs and sports groups that get pretty close.

[drake86]

I was sent this thread by Zumbro. I was president of my fraternity in college. Just came out to a bunch of people (around 12 or so) but have not told anyone from college yet. I just graduated last year.

I am also in a fraternity even though my school doesn't have that many to choose from like many American universities! You are not alone, brothers!

[Ander Blue]

Up to six now! I'm happy to find out that you guys are out there!