Mommy, where do Lesbians come from?

[MusicIsLife]

So I recently rewatched a video on youtube, an educational cartoon on what "makes" people Gay. It was mostly on Gay Men, and how birth order and genetics play a large part on what their sexual orientation is and stuff like that.

After watching it I went to Google to see if I could find anything like that but for gay women. I found pretty much nothing. A few articles on MTF children, but thats it :/ Does anyone know of any articles or what makes a woman gay?

[Étoile]

I want to know too. Nearly all gay research focus on us. The only mention of female-female attraction is that women are more likely to experiment, be open about their sexuality, and be bisexual.

[Chip]

From a book I'm reading now, which is very research-focused, it appears that there is very little support for claims that birth order has any meaningful effect on much of anything once a child reaches adulthood. Interestingly, the only place where the claimed birth order characteristics show any validity is when the data is collected from parents or siblings, but not from any outside observers (friends, relatives, others) but the data does not hold up to any psychological testing or non-familial data collection, at least based on the research I'm currently reading.

It seems highly likely that sexual orientation is genetic, but there may be certain environmental factors that make it more likely to express. Meaning, it is possible that it is 100% genetic, but some people choose never to come out, or to act on their inborn homosexual urges, and therefore, environmental characteristics may come into play as to whether someone admits it and acts accordingly.

[RaeofLite]

I've searched. Believe me... *sigh* Always about the dudes...... as if somehow "they know" things in a concrete manner (such as the fact that a guy can say "I'm gay" and not be questioned as much as if a girl says it.

Hm, that is interesting Chip. If you do find anything more about the topic, please post it on EC.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by RaeofLite

I've searched. Believe me... *sigh* Always about the dudes...... as if somehow "they know" things in a concrete manner (such as the fact that a guy can say "I'm gay" and not be questioned as much as if a girl says it.

I think the reason for this is (based totally upon my own conjecture) is that in every study they've ever done with the question "What amount of the population is gay?" researchers have consistently found that there are slightly more gay men in the population than gay women. I can understand when you come down to it though, 2-3% (I'm aware that a lot of people want to use the 10% statistic but I've seen 2-3% and I think it fits better) of 6 billion people is still a lot of people, so surely there can't be any shortage of lesbians? And I would agree with whomever would pose that counter argument, but for some reason many studies have been done on gay men and not as many on gay women. Maybe it has to do with patriarchy, maybe it has to do with other reasons we couldn't really guess at. Who knows.

[GhostDog]

There's just a lot less research on women's sexuality in general, yeah. What I've read sometimes mentions that there's generally an assumption that what applies to men applies to women too. So correlations between various factors and homosexuality in men are assumed to apply to women, even though studies that actually look at those factors in women may not find that there's any correlation at all. Assuming they even bother to study women in the first place. There's been a historical bias in research towards men, anyway. It wasn't until recently that they found out that women's symptoms (and causes) of heart attacks are different than men, for example. They just assumed we were the same!

Apparently, women as a group tend to give less "promising" results than men in studies of same-sex attraction, and that's part of it. Results tend to be less clear-cut with us. A lot of this research is politically-driven, I think; i.e., if they prove it's biological, the government would have a harder time justifying discrimination (supposedly). So if a study on (gay) men is more likely to prove a point than a study on women, that's the one they're going to go with. They also have a tendency to ignore bisexuality completely! My guess is that research is a lot harder when you step out of the world of "yes/no, gay/straight" and into the grey areas, where a lot of people are.

And even when they find correlations between some factor and homosexuality in men, a lot of times following studies don't even find the same correlation with another male sample. The studies on the same factors in women have the same problem, and there are few studies looking specifically at women (and not just "Well, we found this for dudes, I wonder if it applies to the ladies too?")

The way the research (at least, the stuff I've read) has been leaning is that women are more likely to be more sexually fluid than men. They don't suggest that all women are sexually fluid, mind, or even that women who are sexually fluid experience it to the same degree, or that sexuality is anything that we decide on, just that we're more likely than men to experience that. Studying groups based on self-identification is problematic, anyway, but especially so when one part of your sample is more likely to either change their identity or decides to eschew labeling it entirely than the other.

'Course, I'm not an actual researcher, and there is undoubtedly a lot more out there than what I've read! But that's what I've gathered so far from what I have read.

[Chandra]

I remember reading somewhere about finger-length patterns in gay women, and how they think an excess of testosterone in their mother's body during pregnancy has an effect.

Lemme see if I can find the article...

Here. I don't know how reliable the info is, though. http://www.viewzone.com/fingers.html

[Meropspusillus]

Originally Posted by Chip

From a book I'm reading now, which is very research-focused, it appears that there is very little support for claims that birth order has any meaningful effect on much of anything once a child reaches adulthood. Interestingly, the only place where the claimed birth order characteristics show any validity is when the data is collected from parents or siblings, but not from any outside observers (friends, relatives, others) but the data does not hold up to any psychological testing or non-familial data collection, at least based on the research I'm currently reading.

It seems highly likely that sexual orientation is genetic, but there may be certain environmental factors that make it more likely to express. Meaning, it is possible that it is 100% genetic, but some people choose never to come out, or to act on their inborn homosexual urges, and therefore, environmental characteristics may come into play as to whether someone admits it and acts accordingly.

Everything I read says that it has very little to do with genetics and more to do with hormones during development. Naturally, genes are going to play a role in that, but if there was some gene that get's switched on or off, with all the gay people around they'd have found it by now.

[RaeofLite]

Originally Posted by Chandra

I remember reading somewhere about finger-length patterns in gay women, and how they think an excess of testosterone in their mother's body during pregnancy has an effect.

Lemme see if I can find the article...

Here. I don't know how reliable the info is, though. http://www.viewzone.com/fingers.html

...Holy jesus. I have confirmed what I knew all along. I am hella gay. My finger lengths are so homo.

[Meropspusillus]

Originally Posted by Chip

From a book I'm reading now, which is very research-focused, it appears that there is very little support for claims that birth order has any meaningful effect on much of anything once a child reaches adulthood. Interestingly, the only place where the claimed birth order characteristics show any validity is when the data is collected from parents or siblings, but not from any outside observers (friends, relatives, others) but the data does not hold up to any psychological testing or non-familial data collection, at least based on the research I'm currently reading.

It seems highly likely that sexual orientation is genetic, but there may be certain environmental factors that make it more likely to express. Meaning, it is possible that it is 100% genetic, but some people choose never to come out, or to act on their inborn homosexual urges, and therefore, environmental characteristics may come into play as to whether someone admits it and acts accordingly.

Also, I'm reading something that just came out in February, and they claim (in the abstract, I don't have access to the full thing) that they replicated the fraternal birth order effect, and didn't find support for the finger length thing.

Originally Posted by Chandra

I remember reading somewhere about finger-length patterns in gay women, and how they think an excess of testosterone in their mother's body during pregnancy has an effect.

Lemme see if I can find the article...

Here. I don't know how reliable the info is, though. http://www.viewzone.com/fingers.html

Only issue with that it that if that finger stuff is true I should be 100% straight my index finger is really short compared to my ring finger.

[biisme]

Originally Posted by Chandra

I remember reading somewhere about finger-length patterns in gay women, and how they think an excess of testosterone in their mother's body during pregnancy has an effect.

Lemme see if I can find the article...

Here. I don't know how reliable the info is, though. http://www.viewzone.com/fingers.html

I have the fingers for a homosexual woman. I also have the left-handed tendency that goes with having the longer ring finger (I am right handed but can write pretty well with my left hand. I am also a "lefty" in hockey.)

However, the longer ring finger is linked to better math and spatial skills, rather than reading and writing skills. I can see no clear trait of that in my school scores when I think about it. On the SAT I scored a 740 on Reading, 690 on Writing, and a 720 on Math, which I figure makes them about even. I've scored well on Spatial IQ tests, but got a 5 on the English AP test. I guess they're about the same for Math and Reading/Writing skills then.

However, I am musically inclined, which goes along with what they say.

EDIT: The bisexual woman's hand on this page looks just like mine!

[Meropspusillus]

I love Web of Knowledge: Another Random interesting abstract:

Bogaert, Anthony F. Abstract: In the present study, three physical development characteristics-weight, height, and age of menarche-were examined for their relation to sexual orientation. Participants were men and women comprising the National Survey of Sexual Attitudes and Lifestyles-2000 (N > 11,000). Participants completed self-report measures of sexual orientation, height, weight, and, for women, age of menarche. Results indicated that gay/bisexual men were significantly shorter and lighter than heterosexual men. There were no significant differences between lesbians and heterosexual women in height, weight, and age of puberty. The results add to literature suggesting that, relative to heterosexual men, gay/bisexual men may have different patterns of growth and development because of early biological influences (e.g., exposure to atypical levels of androgens prenatally). However, the present results do not support a number of studies suggesting that lesbian/bisexual women are taller and heavier than heterosexual women.

My guess about why there is less studying done of female homosexuality: there was probably one preliminary study in which they discovered something that was significant for male homosexuality, but not for females, and it just went from there.

[Austin]

Lesbians, AKA leprechauns come from Ireland, silly people.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Austin

Lesbians, AKA leprechauns come from Ireland, silly people.

Lol.


From what i understand Female sexuality is so much more fluid than male sexuality that they can't seem to find any difference between straight and gay women (despite the obvious). Where as they have been able to find differences between gay and straight men.

[RaeofLite]

Originally Posted by Brad

Lol.


From what i understand Female sexuality is so much more fluid than male sexuality that they can't seem to find any difference between straight and gay women (despite the obvious). Where as they have been able to find differences between gay and straight men.

Can't find any difference between straight and gay women?? Sir, you make me laugh...

I don't get aroused at ALL down there when kissing or fooling around with a dude. It is quite a different story when it's a lady...

[MusicIsLife]

Originally Posted by RaeofLite

Can't find any difference between straight and gay women?? Sir, you make me laugh...

I don't get aroused at ALL down there when kissing or fooling around with a dude. It is quite a different story when it's a lady...

^ This

[Apocalypte]

Originally Posted by Austin

Lesbians, AKA leprechauns come from Ireland, silly people.

[RaeofLite]

Originally Posted by Apocalypte

I must've lost my accent, pot of gold and beard then eh?

[Bryan90]

Yeah, I feel that the LGBTQ community very much focus on the "G". I hope this shifts towards the other letters though.

My guess is that historically, "gays" much more of a "culture shaker" than lesbians (this is just a guess, i have no supporting facts there), which is why we tend to focus more on gays than lesbians I guess.