The USA and Communism....I don't get it.

[MusicIsLife]

So, to make things clear i'm more or less a Socialist when it comes to politics. I don't know a LOT about politics but I would never call myself a communist. I do think that Communism is something that works well on paper, but not in practice.


That being said, I don't really understand why americans are so petrified of things like socialized medicine, and things like that. I've asked my grandfather and mother, who are more politics-savvy than I am, but they couldnt really give me an answer beyond "americans love their freedom, and doctors love their money". I've also seen a lot of very angry (and crazy) americans use communism (Ie "You're a communist!") as an insult when something doesnt go their way in some sort of store/resturant/etc.

So my question is, what is america's beef with communism/socialism?

[TwistedNerve]

As a capitalistic nation, a lot of citizens feel that the more government we have the less freedoms we have. What they don't understand is that America is in no way a 100% capitalistic society. We are a hybrid nation of both socialisim and capitalisim.

Anywho, America functions mainly on the capitalistic side of the hybrid. Some fear that there might be a foot in the door effect and on thing will lead to another to the point where we are just another socialist country. Its a very paraniod view but because the opposing side are religious conservatives they always have the armegeddon POV of thing, "the world will end tomorrow so what do I want it to look like now".

America has always been about small and medium government. The only time we've ever had a BIG GOVERNMANT nation was during the great depression. Right now with the leader of the house, senate and the president being very liberal people its shifts the big/small government scale very far left. This however is NOT a big deal. We came out of 8 years from a very small govenment to jump straight into a very big govenment type of system. ITs just a huge shift and some people are just worried. What they don't see is that this isnt the first or last time this will happend. If the look back at carter and clinton they can see the big shift in government from right to left but this is the first time the jump has been so big because this president decided to dig into the healthcare reform stuff. Its a hard shift to get used to.

[Zach1992]

That being said, I don't really understand why americans are so petrified of things like socialized medicine, and things like that. I've asked my grandfather and mother, who are more politics-savvy than I am, but they couldnt really give me an answer beyond "americans love their freedom, and doctors love their money". I've also seen a lot of very angry (and crazy) americans use communism (Ie "You're a communist!") as an insult when something doesnt go their way in some sort of store/resturant/etc.

Well chances are your grandfather is using socialized medicine or will soon in the future with Medicare. He'll also be getting a SOCIAL Security Check. Both of these are Socialism.

"You're a communist" most often comes from people who have differing views than your own & was largely made common in the 50s by Joseph Macarthy's Macarthism (sp?) where he attempted to "out" communist. It didn't work to well & people thought of him as insane.

[MusicIsLife]

Originally Posted by SexualTeen

Well chances are your grandfather is using socialized medicine or will soon in the future with Medicare. He'll also be getting a SOCIAL Security Check. Both of these are Socialism.

"You're a communist" most often comes from people who have differing views than your own & was largely made common in the 50s by Joseph Macarthy's Macarthism (sp?) where he attempted to "out" communist. It didn't work to well & people thought of him as insane.

We live in canada, so we've had socialized medicine for ages, fyi :P

[Nodnarb]

I think there are two types of people here. The first simply believe that socialism/communism are bad forms of an economy/government and are able to articulate a coherent and reasonable argument for why they are opposed. The other group, the type that yell 'socialist' or 'communist', do so because for decades they have been taught by political leaders (McCarthy, Reagan, or Palin, for example) that they must hate and fear socialists/communists (they use both interchangeably as if they don't understand that there is a difference) because they are evil people out to destroy America. These are the types that also tend to believe absurd misinformation (Death Panels, anyone?).

[djt820]

Well, the red scare was a tactic influenced by the media back in the day to keep the public afraid. Thus, they were willing to give up civil liberties. But it resulted in more Patriotism. Since alot of Americans are patriotic, we uphold "democracy" and "capitalism" high and reject (in fear) of other things because it is preached upon as "evil". When in reality, socialism and democracies are the same thing, except Americans have higher political freedoms but those freedoms can be taken away and the public can be influenced what to vote on by the media. In the end, corporations along with the partnership of government and banks decide whats best for the people and the US deemed socialism a "threat" to national security, along with terrorist, drugs, etc. I'm probably just running my mouth again, but there's not much difference, in my humble opinion, between a Capitalistic state like the US or a communist state. We're still in debt just like every other nation. We have inequalities just like every other nation. And we use money just like every other nation. And we have an enemy just like every other nation.

[Just Adam]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!! communism ITS THE END OF THE WORLD !

and that there is the round up of the USA back in the day

[olides84]

I try to explain this to friends over here in Europe. In general, Americans are brought up with the ideals of empowering the individual...that each person has rights and opportunity, and that if he (or she) himself works hard, he can succeed. Barriers to individual success such as a fixed class society, high taxes, redistribution of wealth, regulatory laws, discrimination, etc. are significantly looked down upon. I'm not saying these ideals don't exist in lots of other societies, but in the US it's pretty ingrained. Remember when Hillary Clinton said "it takes a village" she got a lot of shit for that.

As for the crazies that yell communist/socialist, nodnarb said what i think.

[Austin]

Because America was built as a capitalist nation. And socialism does take away freedoms. Socialism is very similar to communism. Communism is the worst form of government to ever exist. It creates a lazy bunch of individuals which eventually drags the country downhill.

It's also natural for people to resist change. The USA has been running fine for hundreds of years so why should we experiment with new things when what we have already works?

Think about it. If you could live off the government and not work, why would you work? And there's no way to better yourself in communism. People don't work hard because their hard work doesn't pay off anyways.

As wanting to become a future doctor, I don't wanna waste half my life to become one and be paid little.

And all your people are idiots. Just because someone doesn't want communism and socialism in America, doesn't make them "crazies."

Pisses me off.

[Lexington]

>>>As wanting to become a future doctor, I don't wanna waste half my life to become one and be paid little.

This in fact is the major issue that Obamacare is going to run into. Already, we have a major shortage of PCPs (primary care physicians) in the United States. Why? Because they're not paid as much as specialists. Specialists earn roughly twice what PCPs are, and usually have a much smaller work load. There's very little motivation to become a PCP now.

Lex

[Austin]

Didn't mean a general doctor. xP I'd probably become a specialist of some sort (if I do choose to go the doctor route!) because of the reasons you gave. Better pay and it's easier.

But I don't even know much about doctor's pay and Obama's heath care. I heard it's not really going to affect it as of now.

But I did hear in some already pretty socialistic countries doctor's pay is a lot lower since the government runs medical care.

Anyways, I just heard this around I'd do more research when I get to college and stuff and actually have to decide permanently.

But eh, lately I'm becoming more and more conservative.

[kettleoffish]

Originally Posted by Austin

Because America was built as a capitalist nation. And socialism does take away freedoms. Socialism is very similar to communism. Communism is the worst form of government to ever exist. It creates a lazy bunch of individuals which eventually drags the country downhill.

It's also natural for people to resist change. The USA has been running fine for hundreds of years so why should we experiment with new things when what we have already works?

Think about it. If you could live off the government and not work, why would you work? And there's no way to better yourself in communism. People don't work hard because their hard work doesn't pay off anyways.

As wanting to become a future doctor, I don't wanna waste half my life to become one and be paid little.

And all your people are idiots. Just because someone doesn't want communism and socialism in America, doesn't make them "crazies."

Pisses me off.

please tell me you're trolling.

[Austin]

Originally Posted by kettleoffish

please tell me you're trolling.

Excuse me? Don't give me that crap. If I'm wrong tell me why I'm wrong. Don't just laugh in my face and tell me what I think is stupid. That's one hell of a lame ass rebuttal.

[ANightDude]

Originally Posted by Austin

Excuse me? Don't give me that crap. If I'm wrong tell me why I'm wrong. Don't just laugh in my face and tell me what I think is stupid. That's one hell of a lame ass rebuttal.

Because you sound a bit like a 50's McCarthyist.

You also, not trying to be rude, of course, don't seem to understand the entire point of communism.

Communism all about work. It's a theory that all the people in a nation can come together and work together and share what you make equally with the people, that way there can be peace because everyone is equal in all ways. Sadly, history has done this incorrectly. Communism is not supposed to be run by a dictator at all, but a group of people who work for the people. Sadly, countries just find it difficult for the people to respond.

Communism is a failed economic system, it cannot work unless the rest of the world is working with it. And when you have countries like the U.S. claiming it is the most evil thing to come since Satan, it makes it even worse for the country to function.

"And all your people are idiots. Just because someone doesn't want communism and socialism in America, doesn't make them "crazies.""

Now that's just rude.
People don't like what they don't understand.

[Lexington]

I do have to ask that everybody please take a step back. Argue your points but don't attack those who hold points other than your own. If your argument is sound, you don't need personal attacks. Don't make the gargoyle pull out the mod weapons. Mainly because I don't have much practice with them, and I don't want to accidentally screw up something I don't wanna.

Lex

[Austin]

Originally Posted by ANightDude

Because you sound a bit like a 50's McCarthyist.

You also, not trying to be rude, of course, don't seem to understand the entire point of communism.

Communism all about work. It's a theory that all the people in a nation can come together and work together and share what you make equally with the people, that way there can be peace because everyone is equal in all ways. Sadly, history has done this incorrectly. Communism is not supposed to be run by a dictator at all, but a group of people who work for the people. Sadly, countries just find it difficult for the people to respond.

Communism is a failed economic system, it cannot work unless the rest of the world is working with it. And when you have countries like the U.S. claiming it is the most evil thing to come since Satan, it makes it even worse for the country to function.

"And all your people are idiots. Just because someone doesn't want communism and socialism in America, doesn't make them "crazies.""

Now that's just rude.
People don't like what they don't understand.

Heh, the intentions of communism are good, yes, but as I said, it won't ever work. The people who invented communism obviously didn't know much of human nature.

You basically just restated exactly what I said about Communism. It won't work because people aren't going to act how communists ideally expect them to act.

Anyways, good intentions, but never going to work. I'm a bit confused that you said I was wrong in saying that communism doesn't work when you just said that yourself...

And I do think it's rude to call anyone who doesn't want communism and socialism "crazies."

[ANightDude]

Originally Posted by Austin

Heh, the intentions of communism are good, yes, but as I said, it won't ever work. The people who invented communism obviously didn't know much of human nature.

You basically just restated exactly what I said about Communism. It won't work because people aren't going to act how communists ideally expect them to act.

Anyways, good intentions, but never going to work. I'm a bit confused that you said I was wrong in saying that communism doesn't work when you just said that yourself...

And I do think it's rude to call anyone who doesn't want communism and socialism "crazies."

Hmm. Not sure exactly what I was trying to get across there either.

Point is, people don't need to freak out and make such a big deal about it. The United States will never be communist, if it was, we'd stop it. So please, people who are always terrified of it need to chill out. Socialized medicine isn't communism.

[prester]

From the close of WW2 untill 1991, America and her allies (NATO) feared invasion by Russia and her "allies" (The Warsaw Pact). Russia was a Communist, One party state. Since Russia was communist and America is capitalist this formed a ready made shorthand term of abuse. Communist (As a term of abuse) = unpatriotic, treasonous, economically stupid, spy, useful idiot.

In principle communism is good "from each according to their ability - to each according to their need". Unfortunately this gives problems with motivation and combined with central organisation does not work.

Communism is run as a one party state. So while it may be democratic it is only democratic within a very narrow range of views. So if you are a Democrat (Labour) supporter imagine the country being run by the Republicans (Conservatives) - for ever.

Communism expects, that eventually, the downtrodden workers of the world will unite in revolution and throw down their capitalist masters and the whole world would be communist. Russia was not above providing encouragement for this revolution. Since communism, as a system, did not provide increasing living standards for its people and did not provide efficient agriculture NATO worrried about a military expansion of the Russian sphere of influence. So the world spent 45 or so years under the threat of WW3 with nukes between Russia and America. So the older folk (inc me) are very rude about communists.

However - while the system encouraged poor output: individuals could improve their pay and conditions by hard work and joining the right clubs (and having the right parents). Party rank could improve your life very substantially. But promotion still needed ability and hard work (as well as party membership).

I know 1991 is back in the stone age but when I was helping to build stonehenge we were still worried about these things.

Cheers Prester

[Austin]

Originally Posted by ANightDude

Hmm. Not sure exactly what I was trying to get across there either.

Point is, people don't need to freak out and make such a big deal about it. The United States will never be communist, if it was, we'd stop it. So please, people who are always terrified of it need to chill out. Socialized medicine isn't communism.

Well, it could. Not likely. But communism has existed before. And there's actually people who really believe it'd work and would be happy to try it out again. I'm not terrified it's going to happen, because it likely won't, but there's a possibility for anything, but I'll speak against it.

As for socialism, it's ideals are similar to communism. I'm not AFRAID socialism is going to turn into communism. They are different in ways. I just don't like the ideas of socialism either.

----------

Originally Posted by prester

From the close of WW2 untill 1991, America and her allies (NATO) feared invasion by Russia and her "allies" (The Warsaw Pact). Russia was a Communist, One party state. Since Russia was communist and America is capitalist this formed a ready made shorthand term of abuse. Communist (As a term of abuse) = unpatriotic, treasonous, economically stupid, spy, useful idiot.

In principle communism is good "from each according to their ability - to each according to their need". Unfortunately this gives problems with motivation and combined with central organisation does not work.

Communism is run as a one party state. So while it may be democratic it is only democratic within a very narrow range of views. So if you are a Democrat (Labour) supporter imagine the country being run by the Republicans (Conservatives) - for ever.

Communism expects, that eventually, the downtrodden workers of the world will unite in revolution and throw down their capitalist masters and the whole world would be communist. Russia was not above providing encouragement for this revolution. Since communism, as a system, did not provide increasing living standards for its people and did not provide efficient agriculture NATO worrried about a military expansion of the Russian sphere of influence. So the world spent 45 or so years under the threat of WW3 with nukes between Russia and America. So the older folk (inc me) are very rude about communists.

However - while the system encouraged poor output: individuals could improve their pay and conditions by hard work and joining the right clubs (and having the right parents). Party rank could improve your life very substantially. But promotion still needed ability and hard work (as well as party membership).

I know 1991 is back in the stone age but when I was helping to build stonehenge we were still worried about these things.

Cheers Prester

Yayy, refreshing my brain of AP euro history. : DD

[ANightDude]

Originally Posted by Austin

Well, it could. Not likely. But communism has existed before. And there's actually people who really believe it'd work and would be happy to try it out again. I'm not terrified it's going to happen, because it likely won't, but there's a possibility for anything, but I'll speak against it.

As for socialism, it's ideals are similar to communism. I'm not AFRAID socialism is going to turn into communism. They are different in ways. I just don't like the ideas of socialism either.

Well dang. That makes sense.
I agree with few aspects of both sides. Such as Universal Health Care, strongly funded education system, etc.