Eating meat is immoral.

[Zoiek]

Meat is an incredibly wasteful way of producing food. On average, just to produce 1 kg of meat, 10 kg of vegetable protein is used. That vegetable protein could be fed directly to people, instead. This leads to starvation because people in the filthy capitalistic West use most of the world's crops to feed their farm animals. And because the West has so much power, it can insist that poorer countries grow food for the West's livestock when they could be growing it for their own people.

What do you think?

x

[Connor22]

ok random but changing something the world has been hooked on from before the egyptians isn't going to be as easy as one speech, and blaming the west for something that they didn't start, merely continued won't help. What you need are artificial alternatives to meat, that taste better than the real thing, once you have that then you turn capitalism on itself, with people wanting to buy artificial alternatives in greater numbers, and so to meet this demand farms switch to the alternative growing. thus the supply chain is changed by the one thing it listens to wholeheartedly and without question. The buyer. That said you need this alternative that is better than meat. Which sadly hasn't been invented yet.

If you always look at it that way, the world will go back to a more agricultural state, and that isn't viable. I don't think eating meat is immoral at all. If no-one ate meat, how many different species of animal d'you reckon would have died out by now? (Serious question there).

[InaRut]

I think that this debate has beem expressed many and many times before and the conclusion is always that of a flame war. A war between those passionate about the crimes of captialism and it's treatment of the lower class, and those uncaring of these injustices because meat is a stable economy which the western world can live from.

Such as Canada, and our Beef Trade.

Capitalism seems to work in two ways, one it keeps particular classes within their single classses (The rich stay rich, and the poor stay poor), but as well as this it has become a stable means to support a growing society. Capitalism, argueably becomes the means to which technology is to develop. Corporations fight for ecnomic control and through this we gain new technologies and develop further as a species. There is a reson beyond, corrpution as to why we are still a capitalist society.

I wouldn't say eating meat is immoral though. Such words are to excessive in a matter that is not simply good (The vegetarians) vs Evil (Meat-eaters). Because like any battle there is always two sides to the coin, and the passion of the other person becomes the means to develop a flame war to his/her opponent.

[Emberstone]

vegetable protein is not as effective in rebuilding and maintaining the body as meat and animal byproducts based protiens.

The human body cannot as readily absorb vegetable protein *legumes and nuts*, so to be effective, it either has to be further refined first, which is costly, or you have to eat considerably more of it throughout the day so you can maximise the absorbtion, when the bodies ability to absorb it is low as it is.

In the end, eating meat is the most effective way to absorb protein, as even vegetable products considered high in protein are only so in the world of vegetable, but are extremely lacking in protein against say meat or dairy products.

people just need to get moderation with everyone.

in the end, eating vegetables is immoral, because potatos and carrots have eyes , and eyes are used for seeing, and therefore they can watch you killing them as you pluck them from the ground, and cutting them up!

paragraph above is as valid of a moral statement.

for more information on the plight of innocent vegetables:

http://veggierights.com/

http://www.vegetablecruelty.com/

[Connor22]

^good point but those animals we raise, adn have since evolved to be better for us well how do you think they got there, the only logical explanation is that they must have survived without our help, and if they could evolve to the state they are now then they can evolve back again. that was for Nialla but then you guys jumped ahead of me. Thanks. Now I look silly.

[xCrazyInsanity]

I think we eat way too much meat, but 100% immoral, not really.

Originally Posted by Connor22

^good point but those animals we raise, adn have since evolved to be better for us well how do you think they got there, the only logical explanation is that they must have survived without our help, and if they could evolve to the state they are now then they can evolve back again.

Only if they get non-domesticated /very/ quickly, otherwise they'll all simply be picked off. Evolution isn't exactly a quick process.

...and I'm tired of people constantly saying that there is NO class manouverability in the West. That's a pile of crap.

[Ty]

Eating meat is promoting unneccessary suffering. I see no circumstances under which it could be moral.

[Connor22]

Originally Posted by Nialla

Only if they get non-domesticated /very/ quickly, otherwise they'll all simply be picked off. Evolution isn't exactly a quick process.

...and I'm tired of people constantly saying that there is NO class manouverability in the West. That's a pile of crap.

Actually within 50 years they would start to grow into a more mean animal and there's more cows and sheep and chickens than a predator could ever wipe out.

Plus that is true there is the odd class movement, people make bad decisions and wind up poor and people make good decisions and wind up rich, but there is always a roughly equal richoor ratio, standing at about 1:99 and that will never change thanks to the capitalistic system.

[Emberstone]

dont forget the people who do everything right, and stay poor, and people who do everything wrong and immoraly, and stay rich.

it isnt black and white.

[Connor22]

I know but I'm just saying that there is the odd change of places

[Ty]

Oh we want to talk about capitalism? Well,

Yes, we might concern ourselves with the history of American involvement in Iran. We might concern ourselves with the fact that the Prime Minister Mossadegh was democratically elected but because he was trying to nationalize Iran's oil, the CIA sponsored a coup to kill him in 1953, which brought the Shah to power, ushering in a 25 year reign of terror and restoring oil to the British and the Americans. We might concern ourselves with another CIA coup in the same year, that did away with the democratically elected president Jacobo when he started to promote land reform and civil liberties in GUA-TA-MAH-LA. Of course it's important to recognize that the USA has a nasty habit of assassinating the leaders of, or otherwise destabilizing any governments with socialist leanings whose regime may not correspond with their own imperialist, capitalistic oil- and drug-hungry AGENDA. Look at Indonesia, Vietnam, Syria, CHIL-AH, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Afghanistan, Columbia. The list goes on.

Yes, the USA's evil capitalistic system is inseperably attached to its imperialistic foreign policy. I don't see how one can defend it.

[InaRut]

Originally Posted by Connor22

Actually within 50 years they would start to grow into a more mean animal and there's more cows and sheep and chickens than a predator could ever wipe out.

Plus that is true there is the odd class movement, people make bad decisions and wind up poor and people make good decisions and wind up rich, but there is always a roughly equal richoor ratio, standing at about 1:99 and that will never change thanks to the capitalistic system.

Exactly, when we say that class mobility doesn't exist in the west world. It's better phrased at...It's very unlikely that such things will happen.

Originally Posted by Ty

Eating meat is promoting unneccessary suffering. I see no circumstances under which it could be moral.

Tell that to the lions in africa who stalk, worry and kill their prey after a long and gruelling chase.

Did you know that guilt is a man-made emotion?

Connor - 50 years? I didn't realise it was that soon. But then again, things like chickens would very quickly die out. Cows and such would probably last a little longer.

[Ty]

Originally Posted by Nialla

Tell that to the lions in africa who stalk, worry and kill their prey after a long and gruelling chase.

Did you know that guilt is a man-made emotion?

Connor - 50 years? I didn't realise it was that soon. But then again, things like chickens would very quickly die out. Cows and such would probably last a little longer.

I assume you condemn rape? Since when do we judge morals based upon creatures that have a limited rational capacity? If it's okay imitate animal's eating habits, then why not their sexual ones? You've made a bit of a imprudent point really.

[InaRut]

Originally Posted by Ty

Oh we want to talk about capitalism? Well,

Yes, we might concern ourselves with the history of American involvement in Iran. We might concern ourselves with the fact that the Prime Minister Mossadegh was democratically elected but because he was trying to nationalize Iran's oil, the CIA sponsored a coup to kill him in 1953, which brought the Shah to power, ushering in a 25 year reign of terror and restoring oil to the British and the Americans. We might concern ourselves with another CIA coup in the same year, that did away with the democratically elected president Jacobo when he started to promote land reform and civil liberties in GUA-TA-MAH-LA. Of course it's important to recognize that the USA has a nasty habit of assassinating the leaders of, or otherwise destabilizing any governments with socialist leanings whose regime may not correspond with their own imperialist, capitalistic oil- and drug-hungry AGENDA. Look at Indonesia, Vietnam, Syria, CHIL-AH, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Afghanistan, Columbia. The list goes on.

Yes, the USA's evil capitalistic system is inseperably attached to its imperialistic foreign policy. I don't see how one can defend it.

Because if I read enough books stating that Orange is actually Yellow, then I'd believe that too.

All I'm saying is that, you can throw fact after fact, but realize that every coin has two sides. For every negative fact you throw, there is a positive fact to negate you.

[x2x2x2x2y2]

Originally Posted by xCrazyInsanity

I think we eat way too much meat, but 100% immoral, not really.

^this.

Originally Posted by Ty

I assume you condemn rape? Since when do we judge morals based upon creatures that have a limited rational capacity? If it's okay imitate animal's eating habits, then why not their sexual ones? You've made a bit of a imprudent point really.

We're just talking about meat-eating here. I hardly thing eating meat and raping someone is comparable. The latter is hardly a matter of necessity. I know people can survive rather happily without meat, and I make a point of giving up a certain type of meat every year for Lent.

Then you have the economic repercussions of 'abolishing' meat, as it were. How would you propose to tackle such issues? (Genuine question, I'm enjoying this debate and viewing such things from different angles).

[InaRut]

Originally Posted by Nialla

(Genuine question, I'm enjoying this debate and viewing such things from different angles).

Me too !
It's staying quite civil!