Debate: Israel

[No One]

Ok so there have been a few threads discussing recent events in Israel, and I want to know what everyone's opinion is about Israel in general.

I will talk about my opinion after other people talk.

[Shevanel]

It's all fucked up. Both sides do stupid things to exacerbate the situation.

That is if you're talking about the ongoing Israeli-Palestine Conflict (Muffin).

[Swimming4ever]

I like Israel still no matter what happened on the news. They say that on that boat, the people were just protecting themselves and these people just climbed on board without permission. Israel has been the USA strongest alley and I'm on board with that. (no pun intended)

[ANightDude]

Both sides have a valid point, and both honestly believe that the land belongs to them.

Instead of talking it out, they think throwing bombs at each will solve the issue.
I'm gonna get sooo into this argument.

[No One]

In my opinion, the Palestinians deserve everything they get. They have been given multiple chances to compromise, but they refuse.

[ANightDude]

Originally Posted by No One

In my opinion, the Palestinians deserve everything they get. They have been given multiple chances to compromise, but they refuse.

The Palestinian GOVERNMENT does. The people have no say in it, and shouldn't be blasted to bits in the middle of it. They might have opinions on it, sure, but if they aren't doing anything wrong, they don't deserve death. Just common sense.

[Shevanel]

Originally Posted by ANightDude

The Palestinian GOVERNMENT does. The people have no say in it, and shouldn't be blasted to bits in the middle of it. They might have opinions on it, sure, but if they aren't doing anything wrong, they don't deserve death. Just common sense.

By Government do you mean Hamas?

[ANightDude]

Originally Posted by Shevanel

By Government do you mean Hamas?

Sorry, I meant Hamas, not government.

[Shevanel]

Originally Posted by ANightDude

Sorry, I meant Hamas, not government.

There is still hatred between both groups for eachother. Ironically enough that I mentioned this, it's almost like the Hutus and Tutsis xD It'll never end.

[No One]

I'm not saying that they deserve to be invaded and such for no reason, but the Palestinians (and I mean the people) have are the ones who normally start it. It's like when you hit a dog and it bites you; It's your fault not the dogs.

[ANightDude]

Originally Posted by Shevanel

There is still hatred between both groups for eachother. Ironically enough that I mentioned this, it's almost like the Hutus and Tutsis xD It'll never end.

True. My Dad always says, "It's pointless for us to be in the Middle East. Those guys will be fighting forever". I just put it off, but sometimes I wonder...

Someone needs to get the fuck rid (odd saying :/ ) of Hamas. They cause so much crap it isn't even funny. They need to get a kick ass kicking. So much could be accomplished without them getting in the way.

I'm not saying that they deserve to be invaded and such for no reason, but the Palestinians (and I mean the people) have are the ones who normally start it. It's like when you hit a dog and it bites you; It's your fault not the dogs.

Most of the people are just stuck in the middle. They aren't the ones with the grenades and guns. Groups like Hamas started that. Sure, the hatred was with the people, but the actual use of terrorism started later.

[No One]

I agree.

One thing that really makes me angry is when politicians act like Israel is so terrible for invading the Gaza strip because of terrorist attacks, when that is exactly what we are doing in Afghanistan and Iraq. The big difference is that the terrorist attacks on us aren't happening on our homeland.

[ANightDude]

One thing that really makes me angry is when politicians act like Israel is so terrible for invading the Gaza strip because of terrorist attacks, when that is exactly what we are doing in Afghanistan and Iraq. The big difference is that the terrorist attacks on us aren't happening on our homeland.

There's a difference. Israel invades as punishment. U.S. invaded Afghanistan to topple the Taliban. Israel bombs the crap out of it and doesn't give a shit who it kills. U.S. makes it a priority to make sure civilians are safe.

Israel did war crimes. U.S. hasn't done crimes nearly on the level Israel did.

[Filip]

Well, it's a horribly complex issue, really. So whatever I say risks being less than enough to do justice for the myriad nuances.

From the Palestinian side, the view is that they were living a perfectly happy life for over 2000 years in Palestine, when suddenly, after a war in Europe, their land was given to foreigners. And after a series of local wars, most of them ended up in refugee camps. With armed guards outside the gates. Guards who then pretend to be reasonable when they ask the Palestinians to give their original home country away at gunpoint. What we call terrorism is seen as heroic resistance against a relatively recent foreign oppressor.

From the Israeli side, they finally got their country back, after 2000 years of diaspora, culminating in near total genocide. But just years after they got back, the surrounding countries decided to attack and sweep them back into the sea. Against all odds, they win, but they're left with the impression (not entirely unfounded) that the majority of the surrounding locals want their annihilation. so they decide that in the end, the only security can come from the barrel of a gun (if necessary by defying international law).

Add to that the Cold War, where both the USA and the USSR were using the conflict to wage a proxy war for influence in the area, and were thus not at all interested in de-escalating things.

Which brings another point: at this point, most of the population of the area has grown up with the current situation. And asking any side to pay for the mistakes their parents and grandparents made will be seen as unfair.

And, as I said, that's the hugely truncated version. As it stands, I can't answer the poll. Because lots of people on both sides are at the same time victims and perpetrators.

How to solve this? If I knew, I'd be in Oslo getting the Nobel Peace prize. It will require a commitment to compromise from both parties, and a tolerance for initial problems when the solution is implemented. But that's easier said than done...

[partietraumatic]

i voted 'why do i care'

Its not that i don't care, i just find it that i can't support either side. Both sides have valid reasons. Equally both sides are in the wrong. Unfortunately its a vicious cycle, so i can't see where it will end.

I suppose if i was pushed i would side with Palestine. And before anyone calls me anti-Semitic (which is a slur that seems to be over used when anyone supports a view that isn't pro-israel) it has nothing to do with their religion. I feel that simply inserting a country in the middle east was not a clever idea, and was always going to cause problems. Yes, you can say that the Jews lived there before, but the current climate should've been considered, i can't understand why nobody saw that it would be a hideously bad idea.

But having said that, it has happened, we have to deal with it.

I see both sides points, but don't think either side is in the right, and i have no reason to feel sorry or in favour for either side of the conflict.

[azrae1]

as an arab, i think israel is doing great than its neighbors thats y i voted for israel, if it didn;t exsist palestines will be useless and don;t contribute to the world.. :/

[booby]

this is coming from a Palestinian who lived in Palestine for 11 years then had to move to ksa because of the bad situation :P

why do we have to compromise when the israelis just came into our land and took it .. would you compromise with a hobo who wanted half of your house because they're already in ? i dont think so

its hell in Palestine .. you cant move anywhere , its so hard to travel in/out of it , they make it their mission everyday to make the Palestianians more miserable so they can move out of Palestine .. but Palestine is for us and it always will and we will stay there as long we can .. they can live in our houses , take our lands , segregate us all they want but we will survive !

im not talking about the ship thing , they've always been blood-thirsty cold-blooded criminals (and they call us terrorists for wanting our country back .. lol) .. the only thing different about the ship is that ppl actually heard about it (israel covers all the news im sure .. they kill 10s and 100s of ppl -women babies and anything that breathes- and no one cares , the take many hostages and torture them and no one listens .. but when we throw a rock at them , or injure one their soldiers , the whole world knows and acts like we are actually guilty of something)

and for those of you who dont know , Palestinians love hamas , i love hamas ! i hate the government (the president , the vice president and all those useless ppl who are 'negotiating' with israel .. they build their houses over our olive trees and lands and the next day , mahmoud abas (the president) goes there and shakes hand and kisses that israeili president (i dont know how to spell his name) i respected yasser arafat (the president before the current one -the one israel poisoned- may he rest in piece) because he never shook hands with shaaron (the one in a comma and i hope is in extreme pain)

hamas is a group of ppl who want to free Palestine and i see nothing wrong with that .. so may God be with hamas

Also , me and my mom are in love with the Turkish guy (ordugan) he is awesome ill vote for that as my president

i really dont like getting into politics .. and many of you guys only know what's on the news (which is so messed up and twisted) so try not to say anything negative about Palestine because it's gonna upset me.

Well Israel has the best gay rights in the middle east, however Orthodox Jews hold the same views of conservative muslims in regard to homosexuality and think its evil.

[booby]

Originally Posted by dude99

Well Israel has the best gay rights in the middle east, however Orthodox Jews hold the same views of conservative muslims in regard to homosexuality and think its evil.

so they accept me as gay and killed 2 of my uncles and at least 3 cousins (that i know of) and took 3/4 of our family's land ?

id rather live with homophobic Palestinians than acceptive israelis lol

[Davy]

In my opinion its just one big mess, over the course of history Jerusalem has changed hands more times than Lady Gaga changes outfits. The Jews, Muslims and Christians have all at one time or another done some pretty bad things in that area of the world.

The Palestinians live in dreadful conditions due to some unfair sanctions imposed by Israel, and are forced in to a corner in voting for the parasites of hamas who dont care about anyone but themselves.

At the same time Israel are surrounded by nations that would like nothing better than to see Israel and the Jewish race wiped off the map. There under constant threat of terrorism and actually show great restraint in there actions more so than other nations might do.

Its all messed up as is people's view on religion.