Gospel church: How people can be easily influentied...

[AnneChaos]

First I'll start with a story...

Yesterday, I was talking to my best friend about religion and he told me that he once went to a gospel church because of a friend of his who was a strong beliver. He told me that the pastor started talking about homosexuality saying it's wrong and people shouldn't respect it. And, as he was saying this my bff says people started commenting with each other saying the pastor was right and stuff...

Then he told me of another time his father's girlfriend also went to the church and it was the same. But she just stood up and walked out of the church.


I only go to church in very especial occasions so I never really got to hear this kinds of things.

I find it very sad how church can manipulate people as they want...They didn't even give it a second thought, whatever the pastor/priest says is right. We're on the 21st century, come on... --'


Did this ever happen with you? If so, did you just stay there and listen to all that crap? Share your experiences and thoughts about it, I like to hear (hmm...read) =D


Sorry If I wrote too much and thanks for reading ^^

[Steve712]

I was raised as a Catholic and they taught us all sorts of things in Cathechism. Apparently, lust is a horrible sin, trees aren't living things and you should feel whole and joyous when you're eating Jesus' metaphorical body.

Of course, the church condemns anything other than a heterosexual, marital union for the purpose of pro-creation, so I did come across homophobia. I was actually very unaccepting of myself because of it, so I renounced the whole mess that is Catholicism and religion generally. It was much easier to be comfortable with myself when I didn't hear people talking about how much they hated me and how I should hate myself too, as you can probably imagine.

[Shevanel]

Originally Posted by Steve712

Of course, the church condemns anything other than a heterosexual, marital union for the purpose of pro-creation, so I did come across homophobia. I was actually very unaccepting of myself because of it, so I renounced the whole mess that is Catholicism and religion generally. It was much easier to be comfortable with myself when I didn't hear people talking about how much they hated me and how I should hate myself too, as you can probably imagine.

I'm sorry you felt that way. I had quite the opposite experience. But hopefully you feel better than you did =] And I'm sure you do.

[Steve712]

Originally Posted by Shevanel

I'm sorry you felt that way. I had quite the opposite experience. But hopefully you feel better than you did =] And I'm sure you do.

Yep, I'm much better.

[ANightDude]

Originally Posted by Steve712

I was raised as a Catholic and they taught us all sorts of things in Cathechism. Apparently, lust is a horrible sin, trees aren't living things and you should feel whole and joyous when you're eating Jesus' metaphorical body.

Of course, the church condemns anything other than a heterosexual, marital union for the purpose of pro-creation, so I did come across homophobia. I was actually very unaccepting of myself because of it, so I renounced the whole mess that is Catholicism and religion generally. It was much easier to be comfortable with myself when I didn't hear people talking about how much they hated me and how I should hate myself too, as you can probably imagine.

Well Steve, I'd say it depends on where you live. Sometimes you are accepted, sometimes you aren't. My church is very accepting, but there is a church my friend goes to that she was a part of. She's very supportive of LGBT and often criticizes that church. They even put up a sign that said "No gays allowed". Guess who tore it down?

[drownedfish]

I gave up on organised religion 3 years ago. I respect why some people are part of it but its not really my thing for a number of reasons. I believe that there is some kind of higher power but im not sure what exactly. I don't prey, I meditate when I need an answer and i try to be a good person that's all that matters to me.

[Steve712]

Originally Posted by ANightDude

Well Steve, I'd say it depends on where you live. Sometimes you are accepted, sometimes you aren't. My church is very accepting, but there is a church my friend goes to that she was a part of. She's very supportive of LGBT and often criticizes that church. They even put up a sign that said "No gays allowed". Guess who tore it down?

Haha, good for her!

[Zumbro]

I think it all depends on which church you go to. I don't blame people for acting like that at church, since it's their religion and that is what it states. I think you're more likely to find that type of thing in southern denominations. Even the catholic church does not believe things like that. I grew up catholic, and was a good catholic kid before I gave up on organized religion. So I had a catechism, which basically breaks down the beliefs of the catholic church and the interpretation of the bible, and puts them in understandable language. The catechism states that catholics are supposed to respect homosexuals and not treat them differently than others, since they did not choose to be gay. It is only the act of homosexual sex that is a sin, and thus gay men are even encouraged to become celibate and possibly join the priesthood. They are not to be treated as less than human though, as they are still God's children.

[Steve712]

I think it all depends on which church you go to. I don't blame people for acting like that at church, since it's their religion and that is what it states. I think you're more likely to find that type of thing in southern denominations. Even the catholic church does not believe things like that. I grew up catholic, and was a good catholic kid before I gave up on organized religion. So I had a catechism, which basically breaks down the beliefs of the catholic church and the interpretation of the bible, and puts them in understandable language. The catechism states that catholics are supposed to respect homosexuals and not treat them differently than others, since they did not choose to be gay. It is only the act of homosexual sex that is a sin, and thus gay men are even encouraged to become celibate and possibly join the priesthood. They are not to be treated as less than human though, as they are still God's children.

That's still homphobic. "You're allowed to be gay, just don't go into any relationships, forget about sex and leave that to the straight people." That's exactly what I meant by "the church condemns anything other than a heterosexual, marital union for the purpose of pro-creation."

[Connor22]

The catholic church (btw aren't gospel churches protestant) on the whole is focusing on protecting the institutions of the church and less so about the people, for those who didn't find what they were looking for in catholicism, try some other churches, there are literally hundereds (Chinese methodist christian church, try saying that five times quick while drunk) and anyway I find that smaller less organised churches are better. Don't write off faith completly because you joined a bad church tha wasn't for you, it's like a boot, wrong size, won't work

and to Jiggles gothika Ben and anyone else who was there It was very tempting but I promise no arguments this time

[Steve712]

Originally Posted by Connor22

The catholic church (btw aren't gospel churches protestant) on the whole is focusing on protecting the institutions of the church and less so about the people, for those who didn't find what they were looking for in catholicism, try some other churches, there are literally hundereds (Chinese methodist christian church, try saying that five times quick while drunk) and anyway I find that smaller less organised churches are better. Don't write off faith completly because you joined a bad church tha wasn't for you, it's like a boot, wrong size, won't work

My apologies for dismissing boots altogether; I never liked them much compared to shoes.

I refuse to participate in any organisation which derives its core principles and beliefs from pieces of literature which are so rampid with psychopathic commandments and twisted ideals that no amount of "good" passages can compensate for them.

[Connor22]

ok that's another problem I have with religion and you are right you have a pretty damn good point the bible is not a rule book but it sounds so much like one it's hard to think of it any other way, if you take the bible as a good way to live life in a moral way, help the poor, feed the hungry, love everyone as much as possible even if that is not at all, love god and trust him those are good morals adn it does say in the bible time and time again that that's what we should be doing, not what most churches are doing and that's why I'm saying shop around the good churches are out there they are working and trying to help people and using the bible NOT as a rulebook but as a guidline and I know that doesn't really make sense when put like that but it is true and it works

and to jiggles Gothika ben etc SORRY I have a habit of doing that

[Steve712]

It is very hypocritical to say that you live by a text (or follow it as a guide, if you prefer a euphemism) , but omit the majority of what it says to do. One could very easily avoid such hypocrisy by, gee, I don't know ... being a nice person anyhow?

[Mogget]

You'll find gays, homophobes, straight allies, and straight people who don't much care in every church. Doesn't matter if it's Mormon, Catholic, Lutheran, Southern Baptist, Pentecostal, Anglican, Greek Orthodox, or Presbyterian (or, for that matter, Orthodox Judaism, Sunni Islam, Sikhism, Baha'i, or Wicca). In many cases they may dislike their faith's teaching on homosexuality, but still feel the faith is overall still valid, or that it isn't a very important issue.

[Steve712]

Simply dismissing it as an important issue and continuing to participate in an organisation which teaches such things is simply sad. It's even more so when they are completely for equal rights, but support the homophobic organisation.

[Connor22]

well the bible isn't just any old book its a collection of 66 books (more in other demoninations) nad they are written in a very cultural context i.e. they are meant to go directly to the people of that time and place where it is/was studied and listened to. So if you are going to read the bible first thing you gotta do is work out which bits apply to your culture, context and time, then you have to differentiate the bits that apply between rules, guidlines nad universals. The rules, well you follow them, like the bist about forgivness, a man comes up to jesus and asks him "master I have forgiven my brother but still he steals from me even after I have forgiven adn punished him, how many times must I forgive him? to which Jesusu replies 'you must not forgive him 7 times but 77 times" so that means that whatever someone does to you you must forgive them but it also says that if someone wrongs you and you forgive them there is no reason why you cannot stop them from wronging you again. Then there are the guidlines like "no sex before marriage" is basically saying don't have sex unless you are with the person you are sure you want to be with, if not forever then for a long time. Then there are the universals which apply not just then but now and forever and the only one of those is "trust in jesus he is your shepard" by the way the only quote from that that is from the bible was the first one, the others are summing up rather long pieces of text that take a long time to type

[Steve712]

Originally Posted by Connor22

well the bible isn't just any old book its a collection of 66 books (more in other demoninations)

Of which a little less than half contain homophobic verses. Not to mention that many others contain deplorable verses despite their lack of homophobia.

nad they are written in a very cultural context i.e. they are meant to go directly to the people of that time and place where it is/was studied and listened to.

Why then do people today still follow it?

So if you are going to read the bible first thing you gotta do is work out which bits apply to your culture, context and time, then you have to differentiate the bits that apply between rules, guidlines nad universals.

Only if they want to be a rational (which automatically entails hypocritical) Christian.

The rules, well you follow them, like the bist about forgivness, a man comes up to jesus and asks him "master I have forgiven my brother but still he steals from me even after I have forgiven adn punished him, how many times must I forgive him? to which Jesusu replies 'you must not forgive him 7 times but 77 times" so that means that whatever someone does to you you must forgive them but it also says that if someone wrongs you and you forgive them there is no reason why you cannot stop them from wronging you again.

That's great and forgiveness is a good quality to have, but Jesus also introduced the doctrines of hell and atonement, which are disgusting in their own rights and render whatever good he said empty. There are other places from which to get morals than a book which teaches such crude and fatuous beliefs as eternal damnation and original sin.

Then there are the guidlines like "no sex before marriage" is basically saying don't have sex unless you are with the person you are sure you want to be with, if not forever then for a long time.

That's a useless restriction upon sex. There is no reason why one should not be able to choose to have sex with someone even though one doesn't not want to spend one's life with the other person. Sex does not have to be something which is reserved for long-term relationships.

Then there are the universals which apply not just then but now and forever and the only one of those is "trust in jesus he is your shepard" by the way the only quote from that that is from the bible was the first one, the others are summing up rather long pieces of text that take a long time to type

It is at the point when people go all "Jesus is your saviour and sheperd, follow him!" when my pedo alarm sounds. ^_^ Hahaha.

----

I want to say that although I am very opinionated, my views do not block friendly conversation with anyone with differing opinions from mine.

[Connor22]

ok I don't know all of the answers, I am not god but I'll make a good stab at it so I'm going to answer your questions in order so:

1) only about three mention anything to do with homosexuality, the first talks about all sorts of sins, the second and third mention ways to be a good monk and all three again are out of context today

2) The bible is written as a rule book and people follow it as such but don't realise that it has fallen out of context and doens't always stand up to the real world as when it tries to it conflicts with morality, again something the bible says to listen to ("the rules are written on their hearts")

3) Those things applied before jesus and Jesus provides a way out, a very good and brilliant way out, you already know what that is, you give you life to him

4) It's actually a good practice, STDs emotional damage and social damage are all things that can happen from flings and not commited relationships adn while there are people who can do sex purely on a physical basis, they are few and far between

5) Jesus isn't a pedo, he is your friend, your boyfriend, your parent and the best person in your life. And I know you will just say "but jesus isn't in my life" or something to that effect but I promise he is.

6) Relax I love arguing on religion and I think nothing less of anyone who argues with me on this subject, just ask Lady Gothika

Connor you taking this debate out of the chat room now. xD

[Connor22]

we should start a thread for it