God this is fucked up. was just reading a news article about a french wine and sausage festive they were due to have in paris and when they were due to have it the police shut it down cause muslim groups complained saying it was offensive against muslims cause it was on a friday. Im sorry if it sounds wrong but if they hate the fact that people eat certain foods or drink or certain types of music then why dont they just stay in a muslim country?? Here in australia no longer in sydney do they have christmas decorations cause muslims say it offends them and for the last 5 years they have talked about banning christmas music and christmas decorations in shopping malls because it offends muslims um then how come when muslim men go on tv and say that our troops should be killed in afghanitsan and that gays are evil on the earth and that women should be beaten for not obeying men and not covering every part of their body, how come they are never told they are wrong? I mean fuck if there people hate the way we live so much, why do they come to non muslim countries?? they cant say its for better oppertunitys, cause look at all the gulf states how rich they are and how many jobs there are. Everytime they protest anywhere they say the same thing'' we want a muslim state'' what a load of shit. if we went to a muslim country and kissed a guy in the streets we would be beheaded but if a muslim moves to the west and screams death to the west and to western soldiers and fire bombs cars like in france every year they dont get told anything or they say its their right to do so
Idk anything bout Muslims, but that sounds really stupid. If you don't wanna eat sausage and drink wine, then don't, just don't bitch when others do.
man its seriously fucked up. from an outside perspective it seems that either the muslims are very clever bullies or that everyone else is shit scared of them. if anyone of us went to live in a different country you would have to RESPECT their beliefs and culture, not impose your own. i've recently moved to the UK and the levels of PC here are ridiculous, almost comical. Like christmas for example; you're not allowed to call lights either christmas lights or fairy lights because it could offent muslims and gays respectively. WHAT? fuck off it's a christian holiday, we dont complain during Rammadam. In fact i'm sure a lot of people would be curious to learn what its all about. i'm glad so many women dress the way they do (the way they want to), because i'm sure it enrages some hardcore islam supporters. if you don't like a countries culture, MOVE THE FUCK HOME! rant over. ahem.
Muslim rights are so much more complicated than other groups for some reason. They're within their right to live in australia and complain about policies but it seems as though every reasonable accommodation is made to the point where it almost becomes unreasonable. This is a phenomenon that's completely unheard of when it comes to other cultures. I usually find myself on the side of tolerence, for instance I am opposed to Sarkozy's new policies vis-a-vis veiled women in France, however I am against most accommodations you mentioned, like the issue of Christmas trees, the wine and sausage festival complaints, et cetera. Keep in mind that it's usually the more orthodox members of the muslim religion who complain. It's easy to generalize but it's actually quite a small group of people who complain about these things. Also, remember that government in muslim countries is regulated by religion which is why we don't have many rights in those countries. Could you imagine if the Catholic church still ran any country (apart from Vatican city)?
If they want to live in these countries they can adapt to our customs. If I were to go over where they lived I would be expected to follow their customs or not. Not try and change them! If they were to offend me I would be told to shut up, if i were to offend them i would be told off.
Is it actually true though? There are some news articles which are very biased when it comes to reporting "political correctness" (I hate that term because it's actually meaningless) and use race and religion as a way to fuel hatred. For example, it was recently reported in the news that England shirts were going to be banned in pubs in case it offends people from other countries. Guess what? It was a lie. The reality of the situation was that the Metropolitan police had sent leaflets encouraging football shirts not to be worn to avoid conflict, but it was not mandatory or banned at all. It eventually spread through the press and people immedietly moved to blame political correctness and ethnic minorities, despite it being suggested due to drunken violence and hooliganism. To be honest, it all seems like a bit of a piss take. I always hear these stories of political correctness about how christmas and easter gets restricted, certain events get shut down etc but I never actually see it. The press are so willing to spew out this garbage but when it comes to actually looking for it yourself it seems to be non-existant. I've never seen anybody reprimanded for saying christmas lights, never seen a muslim demand we adapt to their way of life, and I have never seen them trying to steal our jobs and get their own way by complaining. Sure, I HEAR about it happening, but never actually seen it which is odd if it's as widespread and serious as the press make out. You really can't trust the press on issues like this. They're just a bunch of airheads that cause others to act in the same manner. If I had read that news article then I'd have gone and researched it myself to see why the event actually got cancelled. It's easy to say "muslims complained because of reason x, y and z", but its very narrow reporting and doesn't really offer any evidence to support its claims. It could turn out that it has nothing to do with muslims in Europe and was cancelled by police for another reason, and yet that article has fuelled the type of comments being witnessed here. And you know what? That is the exact response that they want.
It never stops shocking me how easily people judge Islam. You know, those ~1.5billion people who all want sausage festivals banned on a Friday. Martin pointed out about those football shirts and flags etc. and I still hear people say that "the Muslims" are opposed to them and how wrong this is. Just because the sleazy tabloids are willing to spew Islamophobic stories based usually on twisted truth or no truth at all does not mean that people should simply accept it. I can barely begin to imagine how difficult it must be to be Islamic in our current climate. And of course, if a Muslim man kills someone, he's known as the Muslim who killed someone. Yet if a Christian man kills someone, he's known as the madman who killed someone.
Like Martin, I'm just not seeing it either. Sure, there's a lot of talk about these horrible oppressive Muslims, but those stories always seem to happen far away, without a lot of details. I live in one of the larger cities in Belgium. Surely one would expect that this would be a hotbed of islamification and political correctness. Yet, nothing like it ever seems to be happening. Sure, people talk about it a lot: "Next they're going to ban Christmas!!". But between what people say, and what happens, there's usually a large chasm. Also, every time enormous doom is foretold, it doesn't happen. When they gave non-citizen immigrants voting rights, news reported that Belgium would be an islamic caliphate after the next elections! :eek: Guess what though, nothing much changed, and it's a non-issue now. Also, I've actually never met a person who embraced political correctness. Only people I meet are "courageous rebels" who intentionally say offensive things in "heroic defiance of the politically correct majority". A majority which seems to be always somewhere where I am not, at the moment. Yelling "accept our culture or go back!!" is not going to accomplish anything. Most muslim immigrants in the western world have real trouble finding jobs, they get looked down on, and they get negatively portrayed in the news. And from this they should conclude the western world has a wonderful culture they should embrace? When feeling unaccepted, turning towards a form of purity of the ancestral culture is a common coping mechanism. Also, a lot (if not most) of the muslims currently residing in the west were born here. They're citizens of our countries. They would be considered almost foreigners in the countries their parents came from. Now, I'm not saying that the world is all happy and rosy and comfy. There are real problems with integration of immigrants, and all major world religions have their intolerant sides. And some people will just be difficult to deal with no matter what. But yelling "OMG, evil Muslims! My country, love it or leave it!" isn't going to solve anything either. The truth is that all of this has happened before, and will happen again. In Antiquity, Romans bemoaned those strange Christians coming in, with their strange ways and strange religion, refusing to adhere to Roman customs. Accepting them was considered political correctness gone mad even in those days :icon_wink Integration of large amounts of immigrants just takes time (and I don't mean years, I mean a couple of generations). It might be odd to live in the middle of it, but as it has happened all over the world, in a myriad different ways, I'm having a hard time seeing the imminent doom and gloom.
I wouldnt post it if it was lies. It was also reported here http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5h1jh_O6JZagIbCVL7YfRcldasdjw http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/138119 http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20100617/wl_csm/308881_1 http://www.france24.com/en/20100615-facebook-pork-party-banned-after-racism-allegations-paris-islam I so resent the fact that im just posting this to be islamaphobic, i posted it cause i reserached it, people post stories about gay issues by just reading the first paragraph This is another reason why i posted this to just prove this point, For just people reporting that mulsims are against people eating pork and drinking wine on a day of the week they are called racist and inciting racial hatred against muslims but when muslims attack people in the media and online and scream hate in the streets they arent called racist towards others or hateful towards others. I make the same point towards gays even, in sydney gay areas are so fucked in the head that they demand that kids are not allowed in parks so they can walk their dogs. or that pre schools change the way they teach kids to change that a man and a woman arent their parents. some councils even go as far as banning the use of school books that portray straight couples. And the mayoress of sydney is only kept in power cause she claims to be a lesbian so she can get the gay vote of sydney. when in fact shes married and she bashes her husband until he cant walk. I say this because it demonstrats another point. no doubt someone will take offense to this and say im homophobic towards other gays. i said that stuff to a few guys i know from sydney and got called a bigot and a hateful rightwing extremsit. People should just start looking at the truth in society, knowing the truth opens the world up to you, even if you dont like what you see, Just look on youtube for instance and see how much hate gets blasted for no reason. But maybe people should start seeing the hate thats infrnt of them instead of being of the view that on group is intitled to hate while the rest can never defend their views. A woman peace activist said '' Never doubt a small group of commited people can change the world, indeed its the only ever thing that trully has' Think of that and see what it trully means. These people in france have had wine, chese and meat festivals for as long as you can remember and they are told they are not allowed because of a group of people who hate the way they live life. Let me ask you something. How would you feel if a group of radical christians protested the fact that gays and lesbians shouldnt be allowed to have pflagg meetings or be able to have gay pride. cause its exactly the same thing. A group of people hating the way others live their lives But do we go and say that people like westbro baptist church and souther baptists and the american family association have the right to scream at gay school kids and want then dead and set fire to gay bars?? No, then why do people accuse people of being racist and hateful, and islamaphobic when they simply state a fact that these muslim groups are going around demanding that people change everything to suit them. Or should we start closing gay bars down tomorrow to appease the hate groups and the anti gay parts of society. should we stop gay pride.?? should this site be closed? Ask yourself these questions before you go and brand as racist, islamaphobic by simply stating a fact or standing up for themselves.
I honestly don't give a damn if they're Muslim or not, I just dislike annoying people(and by annoying people I mean the people who stopped the festival, not all Muslims.)
Stop being an airhorn. I can easily highlight the relevant parts of this article: Now lets put aside these stupid political spectrum labels and tell me where the whole "lets blame the muslims" part comes into this? It's so easy to waffle on about political correctness and islam, but nobody actually stops and thinks about the safety aspects taken into consideration. If this was a normal wine and sausage festival then I doubt the muslims would give a flying fuck, but these "extremists" groups (to quote your very own source) did it for the full intention of acting against the religious beliefs of Islam just to campaign against them. It's a sad reality that things like this still happen, but you really are blaming the wrong people here. This festival was started because of "islamification" and deliberately went out of its way to condemn a group of people who have just as much right to live in that city as anybody else. It's nothing more than racial profiling to start judging people on who should and should not belong within a community, and that is fundamentally racist. It has nothing to do with political correctness. That is just a socially constructed term used to rebel against social expectations as they evolve over time. If you want to take fire at somebody then I would suggest aim your dislike at the police, but I personally think they made the right decision to ban the festival if its intent is as malicious as the extremist group suggests. It's the French equivalent of the BNP and EDL, which regularly erupt into violence due to the differences of opinion. Sure, they're allowed to think that, but the hypocrisy here is that people quite happily welcome this type of festival, but a festival that aimed to educate people on Islam would be seen as "islamification". There are no winners in this mess, just losers on both sides. I can safely say that I have never met a Muslim who has demanded that we adapt to their religious beliefs, but I have met many people who are quite happy to spew "be one of us or leave!" type jargon. All I see here is a community, which happens to have a Muslim population, wanting to feel safe in their own city without being pestered or dehumanised by extremists who want to force their views on other people. The "protest" against it is no different to what people do when the Westboro Baptist Church get counter-protests, and people celebrate that. The only difference here is that we aren't on the receiving end of the discrimination so our empathy levels drop threw the floor and into hell.
Martin, Ben and Filip: well said. Now that the OP linked to the original news article, it's clear this had become a staged event by extremist groups. This was no long-planned cultural tradition (like Christmas), this was an event purely created to protest against another culture. Sure there are problems with integration of people from different backgrounds, especially in Europe. But I tend to dismiss extremist ranting against a minority group (muslims, gays, immigrants, etc.) because I think it says much more about the ranter than the group being ranted about.
After reading the piece of article that Martin quoted, I have to agree that cancelling it was the right thing to do.
I think it's bullshit for people to have to go out of their way for someone else's religion.If you come to someone else's country, you can't make the rules for them.I'm not saying don't come to our country, but don't make rules for us.
Oh, so these are people going out of their way to insult a religious group and presumably provoke a reaction. That clears it up then. I was reading up on the European Convention on Human Rights just before my exams, and expression of religion is a human right unless public safety or pubic order is compromised. Public order is being compromised by this expression of religious intolerance and so the French government have done the right thing in not allowing it.
just to get one thing straight are the muslims who apparantly trying to take over the world according to the daily mail?
To be quite honest with you, Muslim traditions and custom did not affect my way of living much at all when I was living in Dubai. Aside from just general respect regarding wearing exposing clothes in public, and not eating outside during Ramadan, we were free to live however we liked, amongst ourselves. We weren't stopped from eating pork, or drinking, and in fact, homosexuality was (although it technically shouldn't have been, according to shar'ia law) accepted, providing it was kept fairly private. This is why I think it's very reasonable to be aware of what may offend the Muslim community in a place like France, because the UAE Municipality went to a lot of trouble to cater for lots of different ethnicities and religions. Also, Martin really hit the nail on the head in his last post. I think the nature of this festival was clearly to antagonise. Muslims are the scapegoats for everything nowadays, so naturally we're all going to twist something like this to make them sound like terrorists, or extremists, or whichever kinds of words the media decides to use. I may not be Muslim, but as somebody with Middle Eastern origins, I find this extremely insulting, and wish Western attitudes would change...
Lucky for you Martin. Here in Australia that is seen everyday, particularly in the western and south-western regions. Muslim communities are growing rapidly and they are demanding that only Muslims live in the area, and only Middle Eastern Muslims at that, they are also campaigning to have the non-Muslim holidays permanently banned as it is an "insult" to their own personal beliefs. Yet the non-Muslims, the majority of the state, have to bend over backwards in-order to accomodate these unfair demands. Needless to say these Muslim groups are creating massive double standard. A majority of those Muslims were, at one stage, illegal immigrants. Coming over seas in leaky boats, bypassing all standard protocols, and refusing to conform to the standards, beliefs, traditions, culture, history and unity as a nation set by the state that took them in and are attempting to force reverse-assimilation. We are on the verge of losing ANZAC day and all the commerative days of the Australian Army, the rememberance and dedication to all people who faught and died for the security of our state as well as a better future, simply because the fact that several of the conflicts that we were involved included the deaths of tens of thousands of Muslims. They see it as an insult upon them and their beliefs, and that we are trying to show religious and racial superiority, and some Muslims even take it to extremes. One Muslim youth broke into our National RSL Headquarters and stole a flag that was carried by a soldier during WWI, he then burnt it. A National treasure, one that does NOT exist anymore, a priceless national icon and relic was destroyed, yet no punishment was allocated due to the fact that he was both a racial and religious minority and claimed that he didn't know any better. On that note, the traditional religious dimensions of Australia are also under siege, like Christmas. They see it as an insult to their religious beliefs, even though they are allowed to perform their religious beliefs in public domains. It is like saying "We don't like that, so only we can show our beliefs in public". Although, there is an argument on the otherside as well, that is not the issue at hand. What I am getting at, there maybe these events going on in the world contradicting what is being said, however these are the events that are happening in our homeland, Sydney, Australia . Here the beliefs, traditions, cultures, history and unity as a state are in peril due to the inability of the Muslims to conform to our beliefs, ideals and philosophies. We as a sovereign state are losing our identity, by the inability of illegal Muslim immigrants to conform to what we have set as the regulations of our state. Furthermore, the reasons as to why we cannot challenge these anti-Australian identifications is due to the fact that a majority of the Muslim population exercise religious law to state that they are exempt from conforming to our ideals. Also under those 'religious laws', they are able to voice their wish for the downfall of Australians in war, the very ones who are trying to maintain the peace for our state, the peace that they wished for in their homelands, the peace that drew them to our shores. To re-iterate, it may be different elsewhere in the world but this is the way in which it is affecting Australia as a state.
first , thank you for the first and last paragraph , they were really thoughtful of you and i just want to say that ppl here (in the most Islamic uptight country) are extremely into football and football shirts .. flags are everywhere here , everyone wears their fav. teams shirt and they dont stop talking about it (just bring up Algeria in front of an Egyptian and he goes crazy :lol: .. they're so jealous cuz their not in the world cup thing xD) so yeah , we're not all barbaric homophobic uncivilized terrorists who want everyone to be a muslim or else they're dead .. in the Quraan we're actually told to respect all the religions/prophets .. anyone who doesnt do that isnt a Muslim.
