Does anyone believe that God has deemed our lifestyle evil?

Can't really help you there as I most definitely do not believe in any kind of Judeo-Christian god. I always feel lucky about that, especially when I read about young queer kids struggling with their religious beliefs.

That being said, I do like the whole "God is love" idea. In fact, at some point when Sarah McLachlan was asked to sing our (Canada's) national anthem at a sports events, she sang the line "God keep our land" as "Love keep our land" and ever since then I've sung it exactly the same way.

I think the thinking behind comments like you're relating is that truly... well, I would call them "misled" but I'm sure they would call themselves "pious--" Christians do not consider "gay feelings" as inherent and as finding their genesis in God. I'm pretty sure they think they're a result of the meddling of their favourite fallen archangel.

That observation can lead into this big discussion about why trying to construct queerness as "inherent" and "inborn" isn't necessarily the best idea for gay people to try for because of a host of factors, not the least of which it's playing the game by the fundamentalists' rules, but I've just been writing a 12-page research proposal involving various sociological takes on "being gay" so my brain is probably a little scrambled that way.

 

where do you meet that people?

Western religions base their control mechanism in sex, specifically forbidding it. Sex is the basic impulse of humans to reproduce. Evolution has made same-sex attraction, some presume in order to keep population stable, I don't know, nor care.

However, if someone has deemed homosexuality (or any sexuality actually) evil, is simple humans with something in mind other than the alledged god's will. With that in mind, you have to really ask yourself what it is you believe, and if the god you believe in could or would deem your lifestyle (or any) evil. The bottom line is that you have to be comfortable with yourself.

I was born in a jewish family, grew up in a multi-cultura environment, and now attend to the catholic university. Not to mention I have friends with some wierd religious beliefs. And none of them passes any judgement on my sexuality. You shouldn't let people put you down.

Now, this is only MY point of view, just feel free to use whatever you find useful and ignore the rest.

Hope you are all right...

 

I've heard they're QUITE easy to find in the American South. It's pretty much the biblical zone of a country that is already over-religious.

See http://www.cool.ca/jesusland/ for more details.

 

Because I live here, I just wanted to comment that the South does have a lot of regular churchgoers. Because of that, there are a lot of people here (especially in rural or suburban areas) who have problems with gay people and "their lifestyle" (ugh, I hate that term!) with regard to what their brand of Christianity says about homosexuality. That said, because religion on average plays a larger role in everybody's lives here, churches and churchgoers also appear to be more involved in the struggle for gay rights and acceptance than other places I've lived.

For example, at NC Pride last year, there were a lot of churches and other religious groups in the parade. Sure, there were drag queens and people waving rainbow flags too, but by far more people in the parade were part of church groups than probably any other type of group. Churches just play a more central role in the community here for various reasons (mostly tradition I guess), regardless of how conservative or liberal they are. I was quite taken aback by it, but as my friends pointed out this is the bible belt for better or for worse.

A majority of my gay and lesbian friends here attend church regularly, even though I personally never go (and have never gone--I was basically raised agnostic). In fact, a major reason one of my gay friends goes to church is to meet other gay men!

I think it's important to remember that not all churches and Christians are anti-gay. Many gay people find themselves choosing between their sexuality and their religion during their coming out process, but it doesn't have to be a one or the other situation. One friend of mine was raised Southern Baptist (generally one of the most anti-gay churches out there), but since coming out has started attending a UCC church (ordained its first gay minister in 1972 and has been performing same-sex religious marriage ceremonies for a while now).

 

But the gay debate is such a divisive issue that going from a church that is anti-gay to one that is accepting of gay people feels pretty much like you're changing religions. For a person who's more spiritual than religious, that may seem fine on paper. But I'd compare it to changing families. Your new family may be a wonderful group of people who love and accept you even more than your original family did. But it's just not your real family.

Up through high school, I attended church every Sunday with my family. I wasn't super religious, but I did find comfort in my faith. So when I chose to stop attending, it was scary because I suddenly felt like I didn't have the church or even God on my side anymore.

I think about my soul and my life's purpose on a fairly regular basis, and I do find that going to church and listening to sermons gave me a good basis on which to reflect my thoughts. When I chose to stop going, it was b/c I decided I couldn't support an institution that was so anti-gay.

Sometimes I think, "Why do they care if I'm gay or not? Can't they just get over it?" But if I can't get over the fact that they're anti-gay, why should they get over the fact that I am gay? That's something I struggle with to this day. Would accepting my old church be betraying my gay identity, or would it be being the bigger man, the one who puts differences aside and agrees to get on with it?

 

It depends a lot on how anti-gay the church is and how broad a range of views are accepted. For example, there are quite a few gay Catholics. On one hand, the church hierarchy is very clear in prohibiting homosexual behavior, but at the same time some clergy deemphasize the issue to the point that it's all but ignored. There are a number of Catholics in the church as well who are trying to change things from the inside (regardless of how realistic that potential change is).

On the other side of things, you have religions like Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons who have very strict rules on these kinds of things and really allow no dissent from established church doctrine. Often it's impossible to be openly gay in such a church.

I can definitely understand when you say changing churches is like changing families. The analogy is quite apt really. A lot of gay people who get rejected from their families when coming out have to find a sort of surrogate family consisting of supportive friends. It'll never be their birth family, but that change is necessary if the person is to survive emotionally (and in certain cases physically). In the end, their family of choice becomes more important to their day-to-day lives than their family of birth.

 

Needless to say, this is a tough subject!
My family is not a devoted catholic one, but I have been to a Catholic school until I turned 18, so I think I've learnt enough of this religion and christianism in general. The denial of any kind of sex impulses outside marriage is definitely a very important concept for christianism, not to mention same-sex sexual impulses! This idea has been haunting me all my life, even after I abandoned the church, ages ago. Catholic church is very nosy about people's private life (sex, birth control, drugs, etc), and I don't foresee any change on that.
I'm sure there are lots of gay catholics. Mosts catholic priests are gay, that's no joke. It's funny the catholic church is still so relunctant to consider queerness as "inherent" and "inborn" (thanks joeyconnick for the concept). I won't talk about the new regulations the pope has issued recently. When I read about them in the newspaper they made me laughed a lot more than the cartoons in the last page.
My best friend during the time I've been to the catholic school is gay, and he manages to compatibilize his 'lifestyle' and his religion. It seems it all depends on the person. It would be impossible for me. I don't even believe in god. Besides, if god existed, he/she doesn't seem to have talked to humankind for a while, so he/she surely doesn't endorse all priests, popes, TV evangelist, or whoever that spreads His/Her so-called 'word'. So if I believed in god, I would still try to keep myself away from any organized religion. This is my opinion of course, I'm sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone's beliefs!

 

No.

But that is likely because I don't link my perception of "God" with anything propounded by mainstream religions.:icon_wink

 

I'm agnostic, too. Though, my family is heavily Orthodox Christian, so I've been to church a lot...

If there was a God, and if he considered homosexuality to be evil, how is that different from all the other sins that straight people constantly commit? We're all human, so none of us are pure and never commit sins. A really important part of Christianity is forgiveness. If you think being gay is evil, then it doesn't matter if you kill a man, lie to him, steal from him, or sleep with him (those four fit togeter perfectly, don't they? :lol: )... If you're a good Christian, then you will be forgiven.

If you don't think being gay is evil, then good for you . The Bible's descriptions of homosexuality are not only vague; they're rare. If it was a very important point, then it would have been stressed more.

 

I truly have to agree with what you're saying. If homosexuality was wrong not only would it be everywhere in the bible but I believe it would be everywhere else too... Does the news portray homosexuality as bad? Does the radio? No. Most of the time Homosexuality is frowned upon because of personal reasons or closed minded people.

I don't think God has deemed this wrongfully. Homosexuality goes back along ways.. Society just has to learn how to accept it again. My school is fairly open about it. I have homosexual friends and the school is accepting, and it is a Christian school. There are a few haters but despite their attacks everything is fine...

Homosexuality reminds me racism, black people were deemed "nothing" but now they are becoming more accepted. Colour isn't that big of an issue anymore but now its sexuality... :icon_frow