does the word gay usually include lesbians to you?

[alan t]

So there's a specific word just for gay women which is lesbian but the word gay is sometimes used for all homosexual people and sometimes specifically for men.

Why is that?? I find it interesting that even lgbt terminology is affected by these sexist forms of language, where one word is used for both men and people in general while there's another word to specify women.

maybe because there are fewer gay women out so people end up associating the word gay with men?

[ANightDude]

I always thought it was because "gay" is easier to say.

[Swamp56]

I find it odd too. To me, a gay person includes anyone who is homosexual.

[VampConspiracy]

I honestly don't know. It may have historical significance, however (from Etymology Online):

Regarding "lesbian":

1590s, "pertaining to the island of Lesbos," from L. Lesbius, from Gk. lesbios "of Lesbos," Gk. island in northeastern Aegean Sea (the name originally may have meant "wooded"), home of Sappho, great lyric poet whose erotic and romantic verse embraced women as well as men, hence meaning "relating to homosexual relations between women" (1890; lesbianism in this sense is attested from 1870) and the noun, first recorded 1925. Before this, the principal figurative use (common in 17c.) was lesbian rule (c.1600) a mason's rule of lead, of a type used on Lesbos, which could be bent to fit the curves of a molding; hence, "pliant morality or judgment."

"And this is the nature of the equitable, a correction of law where it is defective owing to its universality. ... For when the thing is indefinite the rule also is indefinite, like the leaden rule used in making the Lesbian moulding; the rule adapts itself to the shape of the stone and is not rigid, and so too the decree is adapted to the facts." [Aristotle, "Nicomachean Ethics"]

The story of the word "gay" is a bit less compelling, and its homosexual denotations have been around for a lesser amount of time.

Regarding "gay":

late 12c., "full of joy or mirth," from O.Fr. gai "gay, merry" (12c.); cf. O.Sp. gayo, Port. gaio, It. gajo. Ultimate origin disputed; perhaps from Frank. *gahi (cf. O.H.G. wahi "pretty"), though not all etymologists accept this. Meaning "brilliant, showy" is from c.1300. OED gives 1951 as earliest date for slang meaning "homosexual" (adj.), but this is certainly too late; gey cat "homosexual boy" is attested in N. Erskine's 1933 dictionary of "Underworld & Prison Slang;" the term gey cat (gey is a Scot. variant of gay) was used as far back as 1893 in Amer.Eng. for "young hobo," one who is new on the road and usually in the company of an older tramp, with catamite connotations. But Josiah Flynt ["Tramping With Tramps," 1905] defines gay cat as, "An amateur tramp who works when his begging courage fails him." Gey cats also were said to be tramps who offered sexual services to women. The "Dictionary of American Slang" reports that gay (adj.) was used by homosexuals, among themselves, in this sense since at least 1920. Rawson ["Wicked Words"] notes a male prostitute using gay in reference to male homosexuals (but also to female prostitutes) in London's notorious Cleveland Street Scandal of 1889. Ayto ["20th Century Words"] calls attention to the ambiguous use of the word in the 1868 song "The Gay Young Clerk in the Dry Goods Store," by U.S. female impersonator Will S. Hays, but the word evidently was not popularly felt in this sense until later (cf. the stage comedy "London Assurance" written 1841 and popular through early 20c., with its character Lady Gay Spanker, famously played by Mrs. Nisbett). The word gay in the 1890s had an overall tinge of promiscuity -- a gay house was a brothel. The suggestion of immorality in the word can be traced back to 1630s. Gay as a noun meaning "a (usually male) homosexual" is attested from 1971.

[Maddy]

I use "gay" for myself because I don't really like the word lesbian. I also don't like describing myself as a noun, I prefer to use adjectives - I feel more comfortable saying "I'm gay" or "I'm queer" than "I'm a lesbian", I don't really know why.

[AlyssWonderland]

Originally Posted by Maddy

I use "gay" for myself because I don't really like the word lesbian. I also don't like describing myself as a noun, I prefer to use adjectives - I feel more comfortable saying "I'm gay" or "I'm queer" than "I'm a lesbian", I don't really know why.

Agreed with this. Since I'm somewhere between a Kinsey 3 and 5 (it changes) my friends ask me how much of a lesbian I am that day. I usually say "I'm around... 60% gay today." I like the sound of that better than "I'm 60% a lesbian today"...

[MusicIsLife]

I use both, but I also enjoy calling myself a "Sapphist" for the fun of it, especially when I tell someone and the reference goes completely over their head.

[VampConspiracy]

I gave the background of the words, yet didn't say what I used... Oops.

I do distinguish between "gay" and "lesbian." It it simpler to think in those terms. However, I'm not shocked to see a woman call herself "gay," since it is actually a quite ambiguous word.

A guy should never call himself a "lesbian," though, especially considering the etymology.

[Prccgeek]

for me it is does...but that might be just because I don't really like the term lesbian for myself and I therefore call myself gay

[partietraumatic]

i have to say when the word 'gay' is used, i always apply it solely to men. I wouldn't be surprised to hear a lesbian call herself gay, but when someone says it, only men come to my mind!

[Owen]

I usually use the word "gay" to refer only to men, and when I say "the gay community", I usually just mean gay men; I'll say "the GLBT community" if I want to refer to gays and lesbians.

[Apocalypte]

Originally Posted by Maddy

I use "gay" for myself because I don't really like the word lesbian. I also don't like describing myself as a noun, I prefer to use adjectives - I feel more comfortable saying "I'm gay" or "I'm queer" than "I'm a lesbian", I don't really know why.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[Davy]

Gay for me means both men and women. Lesbian is not relay a word I use, but if some folk want to use it so be it.

I always amused that Lesbian was a word that gay women used to separate them from the wider gay community so they could freely speak about issues specific to them. For example if i were to talk about gay adoption, the image that springs to most people's minds would be two men adopting. It is pretty sexist I suppose.

[AnneChaos]

I rarely ever use the word lesbian...I don't know why though xD The word "gay" is prettier xD

When I don't use the word "bisexual" for me, I say "gay".

[GoinStag]

My best friend's Mom is a lesbian and she refers to herself as "gay". I think it just depends on the person, like whatever they call themselves/want to be called.

I honestly feel weird saying "she's a lesbian", it makes me feel like I'm calling her one or something idk how to explain lol would it be proper to say "she's lesbian"?

[GhostDog]

Also, just from an "agh, leave me alone, dude" standpoint, "gay" is less sexually charged for straight guys than "lesbian". I've been told that male suitors are more likely to give up if you say, "I'm gay" than "I'm a lesbian" (which may only egg them on), though I haven't personally had that problem.

I'll say "gay" for either gender, and when I'm talking about issues relating to a specific gender, I'll say "gay men" or "gay ladies". Or "gay women", I suppose, but I like the sound of "gay ladies" =P

I'll call myself either, but most of the time, I prefer saying "gay" to "lesbian", mostly for the noun versus adjective reason. It's like saying "I am like this" rather than "I am a thing that is like this". If that makes sense.

[littledinosaurs]

To me, gay includes women. Also, for the sake of making conversations easier, sometimes my friend & I use it to really cover the whole LGBT spectrum.

[British Lad]

For me gay is a word I use to tell people I like the same gender and that is all, anything else has no meaning, basic i will screw who I want to screw and if they don't like it tough.

[Ralivar]

Personally, and I couldn't say why, but I associate the word gay with men only. I have the same sort of view with the word homosexual I tend to associate it with men only.

I'm not sure if its a gender thing, from what I know and from my experience it seems that guys associate the word gay with men only whilst women will associate the word gay with both men and women. This is probably a a major generalisation and I may be completely wrong but that's how it seems to me.

[sleeb]

Originally Posted by Apocalypte

Took the words right out of my mouth.

My thoughts exactly. I also hate the word bisexual. And given the fact that I tend to slide on one side of the Kinsey scale, I stick to calling myself gay.
Gay to me means men and women.