(For Americans) Our rights are slowly decaying..

Most Americans, except for the extremely closeted ones (or the ones that simply don't care) have noticed that our constitutional rights are being increasingly diminished in the efforts of "counter-terrorism"

The USA Patriot Act, allows for the government to search our homes, our medical records, our library records, our emails, our phone-records, and wire-tape our phones without a warrant. All they have to say is "You're a terrorist." They don't need evidence. They just need to say that.

People who are called "terrorists" with no evidence at all are thrown into detention camps where people in charge use "enhanced interrogation" techniques on prisoners. That means they waterboard you, put electrodes on your genitals and shock you, and so on.

There are over 2,000,000 everyday Americans on the possible terrorist list, and it is growing every single day. There are not 2,000,000 terrorists in America.

Countries like the UK, Spain, and France all do the same to fight terrorism, both domestic and foreign. But there is one difference, they don't restrict the right of their citizens in the process.

(unrelated to terrorism) The Supreme Court actually just passed a revision on the Miranda warning, which is what police say to you when you're arrested. This is what they will have to say:

You have the right to remain silent, but only if you tell the police that you're remaining silent.You have a right to a lawyer — before, during and after questioning, even though the police don't have to tell you exactly when the lawyer can be with you. If you can't afford a lawyer, one will be provided to you. Do you understand these rights as they have been read to you, which, by the way, are only good for the next two weeks?

So now, you don't have the right to remain silent unless you specifically say you want it (and that's not something that's going through your mind when you're being arrested.) Sure, you can have a lawyer, but not right now. We'll wait a week to get you one. Oh, you want a lawyer now? Sorry, it's day 15. The high court has completely turned the Miranda warning upside down and destroyed the entire point of it.

Here is a documentary (about 80 minutes long, and the name is very dramatic) that describes all of this in great detail:

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8

There is so much more. But I want to know what your opinion on all of this is (even if you're not from the US.) Do you think we need to prevent this? Do you think this is good? Do you think this is just all complete BS, even though time and time again it's been proven true?

Please don't attack people. Just post what you think without being rude.

[507bro]

gawd history repeated itself again
first it was witch accusation in Massachusetts
Then it was Communist accusation during the cold war
now it's terrorism accusation

[malachite]

oh yeah, we like to think we've come so far, but before you can blink an eye the witch hunts and the burning of heretics, it starts all over again.

[partietraumatic]

its not quite true that in the UK our civil liberties aren't impinged. On the contrary our last government introduced terror laws which were entirely wrong in my view, and sh*t all over our civil rights. For example the police have the ability to hold a suspect for 28 days without charge. 28 days!! There are many other examples.

Luckily our new government is going to look into the issue. Though, forgive me for being cynical, i won't hold my breath on anything drastic happening. Since 9/11 in the US and 7/7 here, there seems to have been a gradual drift towards acceptance of the loss of our liberties, which doesn't sit well with me. If we're not careful we'll be a police state, and no better than many of the countries around the world that we look down upon.

Originally Posted by partietraumatic

its not quite true that in the UK our civil liberties aren't impinged. On the contrary our last government introduced terror laws which were entirely wrong in my view, and sh*t all over our civil rights. For example the police have the ability to hold a suspect for 28 days without charge. 28 days!! There are many other examples.

Luckily our new government is going to look into the issue. Though, forgive me for being cynical, i won't hold my breath on anything drastic happening. Since 9/11 in the US and 7/7 here, there seems to have been a gradual drift towards acceptance of the loss of our liberties, which doesn't sit well with me. If we're not careful we'll be a police state, and no better than many of the countries around the world that we look down upon.

Ah so the UK was doing what the US is doing now?

Interesting, I didn't know that. At least your new government acknowledges it's failure to rule responsibly in the past. So good for them. Unlike now, Obama actually signed an extension to the USA Patriot Act back in February. >:|

And I agree, history is repeating itself, and we (the world) have began to accept the loss of liberties, and it does not sit well with me either. :|

Also I was expecting people to shoot at me when I posted this. I am so glad more people have realized this than I thought.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

And it's only been a little more than two hundred years since the country was founded and we're already losing our basic foundations.

Originally Posted by Charme

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

And it's only been a little more than two hundred years since the country was founded and we're already losing our basic foundations.

I love quotes from the founding fathers. Even though they are nearly 300 years old, they still show more intelligence and more progression than anyone in power today.

[s5m1]

Steven, while I understand, and share, your concerns over some of the things that have happened in recent years because of the “war on terror,” much of the information in your post is inaccurate. The government still cannot search our homes, wiretap our phones or access our medical records without evidence, probable cause and a judge’s signature on a warrant/court order. The Supreme Court has also not repealed the requirement that Miranda warnings be given to people when arrested that they have the right to remain silent and that they have a right to speak with an attorney before, and have the attorney present during, questioning. The above “quote” is not the current state of the law.

Also, while the other countries you named are wonderful and have expansive rights for their citizens, they do not have a document like the Bill of Rights that guarantees certain rights to all people in the United States. As an example, there is no pure right to free speech in Great Britain, as there is in the United States. Another example is the law recently passed by the lower house of the French Parliament banning full Muslim veils. Spain and Belgium are considering similar legislation. Such a law would be unconstitutional in the United States, as a violation of the First Amendment.

You've seemed to just pick and chose things I have said and said they are false, so I shall clarify as you clearly do not know how to read.

Originally Posted by s5m1

The government still cannot search our homes, wiretap our phones or access our medical records without evidence, probable cause and a judge’s signature on a warrant/court order.

Under the USA Patriot Act, it allows for the government to search our homes, wire-tap our phones, access our medical records, access our library records, and access our phone records without evidence if and only if they say they suspect us of terrorism, plans to commit terrorism, or association with terrorists. They just need to say it, they don't need evidence. They can't do that with any other crime. Please read.

Originally Posted by s5m1

The Supreme Court has also not repealed the requirement that Miranda warnings be given to people when arrested that they have the right to remain silent and that they have a right to speak with an attorney before, and have the attorney present during, questioning. The above “quote” is not the current state of the law.

I didn't say they repealed the requirement for the Miranda warning. I said they changed what needs to be said, and what was in the quote is what the police will say (notice the use of the future tense) when the revision of the law takes place if they do take place. The Supreme Court passed it. Please read.

Originally Posted by s5m1

Also, while the other countries you named are wonderful and have expansive rights for their citizens, they do not have a document like the Bill of Rights that guarantees certain rights to all people in the United States.

Uh, yes there is. We even wrote it for some of them after World War 2 (Japan, Italy, Germany.)

Originally Posted by s5m1

As an example, there is no pure right to free speech in Great Britain, as there is in the United States. Another example is the law recently passed by the lower house of the French Parliament banning full Muslim veils. Spain and Belgium are considering similar legislation. Such a law would be unconstitutional in the United States, as a violation of the First Amendment.

There is a pure right to free speech in the United Kingdom (Great Britain, Wales, Scotland, Northern Irelend) that is set into affect by Article 10 of the Human Rights Act enforced by the European Convention.

And you seem to be missing the point. I said they fought terrorism without taking away civil rights of their citizens. The French and Belgium (yes, it was passed) banned the full Muslim veil because it was demeaning towards women. Not because it was involved in a religion where there were a small group of people that distorted Islam so much where you can barely even call it Islam to begin with. Both France and Belgium seemed to have forgotten though that the women choose to wear the full Muslim veil, they can chose to not wear it, they can chose whatever they want. Which is why I am against the banning of them, but that's besides the point.

[djt820]

I trust my government! They're good people. They wouldn't search my things without a good reason, would they? I think Obama would eliminate alot of the taxes we pay so that Patriot Act may be one of those taxes he gets rid of. Just have some faith, people!

Originally Posted by djt820

I trust my government! They're good people. They wouldn't search my things without a good reason, would they? I think Obama would eliminate alot of the taxes we pay so that Patriot Act may be one of those taxes he gets rid of. Just have some faith, people!

The USA Patriot Act has nothing to do with taxes, and they would search your stuff without good reason. They have done it before to thousands of people, all on record. Watch the documentary if you don't believe me. They've actually sent people away to prisons for years without a trial, without attorneys, without any other reason than "They might be a terrorist." And like I said before, 2,000,000+ everyday Americans are on the government's "They might be a terrorist." list. That is the list where they put SSSS on your boarding pass when going onto a plane.

And he already extended the Patriot Act. Now, I am not an Obama hater. I think he's a decent president. But extending the Patriot Act..:|

[Shevanel]

Originally Posted by Steven

The USA Patriot Act has nothing to do with taxes, and they would search your stuff without good reason. They have done it before to thousands of people, all on record. Watch the documentary if you don't believe me. They've actually sent people away to prisons for years without a trial, without attorneys, without any other reason than "They might be a terrorist." And like I said before, 2,000,000+ everyday Americans are on the government's "They might be a terrorist." list. That is the list where they put SSSS on your boarding pass when going onto a plane.

And he already extended the Patriot Act. Now, I am not an Obama hater. I think he's a decent president. But extending the Patriot Act..:|

You just got epicly trolled xD

[Phoenix]

Count me as one of the people who don't care.

Originally Posted by Shevanel

You just got epicly trolled xD

Oh..damn XD

I fail at detecting trolling..obviously..

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Count me as one of the people who don't care.

[Rikudo]

Meh I honestly don't care. I'm not doing anything illegal so I've go no worries.

And as far as the wiretaps, searches and what not goes. I'm okay with it we live in an increasingly hostility world that seems to despise the US(even though the US tends to help most of the world). It's better to be safe than sorry. As this wouldn't be the first time this has happened in the US. The only thing that's different is that because of the internet people can get away with leaking info.

Originally Posted by ER73

Meh I honestly don't care. I'm not doing anything illegal so I've go no worries.

And as far as the wiretaps, searches and what not goes. I'm okay with it we live in an increasingly hostility world that seems to despise the US(even though the US tends to help most of the world). It's better to be safe than sorry. As this wouldn't be the first time this has happened in the US. The only thing that's different is that because of the internet people can get away with leaking info.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

[djt820]

Originally Posted by Steven

Oh..damn XD

I fail at detecting trolling..obviously..

LOL!
It's ok. You'll learn soon enough :P

[Rikudo]

Originally Posted by Steven

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Yeeeeeeeeeeeah obviously Ben Franklin is the best example to use cause he understood things like chemical & biological warfare and acts of terrorism that take thousands of lives if not millions. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat example Steven.

Originally Posted by ER73

Yeeeeeeeeeeeah obviously Ben Franklin is the best example to use cause he understood things like chemical & biological warfare and acts of terrorism that take thousands of lives if not millions. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat example Steven.

It was a general statement.

Also, if you seriously think terrorism can even possibly take millions of lives..

Not to mention the fact that terrorism isn't the only threat the US has had. We did the same thing with communism and witches. Not to mention terrorists don't have chemical and biological warfare capabilities, or they would have used them already.

I'm not even going to bother reading your posts here, because apparently you can't stop to think before posting anything. And I don't want to end up saying rude things to you.

Hm..I hope I edited out the bad stuff before you got to this..:|

[Rikudo]

Originally Posted by Steven

It was a general statement.

Also, if you seriously think terrorism can even possibly take millions of lives you're retarded.

Not to mention the fact that terrorism isn't the only threat the US has had. We did the same thing with communism and witches. Not to mention terrorists don't have chemical and biological warfare capabilities, or they would have used them already.

I'm not even going to bother reading your posts here, because apparently you can't stop to think before posting anything. And I don't want to end up saying rude things to you.

Really now so if a group were go unleash a biological agent into a city like New York,Chicago etc that have populations of millions of people living in them that would be retarded right? Right now the suspects get more rights than the Mcarthy trials and don't even compare the witch hunts to this. Also perhaps they don't have them now but a rogue group could obtain them. This is a very touchy subject for me as I have friends in the army and there parents. I've seen a 9yr old girl lose her father and one who never even the chance to meet hers. So yes please excuse me as I do get upset about this subject.